Nordland Officers Cyphers

[RobertE]

There's not much to these devices, in terms of construction, but I would appreciate a good look from our volunteer outfit experts. Are they original?

regards, Robert

[RobertE]

These are tough, but anyone want to take a shot?

[SJP]

Robert, Is that one single pin? Are they die stamped IYO ?
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Cheers Steve

[PMan]

Cyphers

I like them. They do look die stamped.

[RobertE]

Steve, they have a single pin welded on the back, and they are die-stamped and bronze colored.

Thanks for looking, Peter - I think they are good as well.

[Fritz]

Just compared them to a set in my collection and to me they look good.

Those I have measure ca. 18 x 15mm, if yours are cast (what they don't look like) they should be smaller.

Cheers

[RobertE]

Fritz,

Thanks for breaking yours out, and providing measurements. Mine are 18 x 14.5 mm, exactly.

[Fritz]

Fritz,

Thanks for breaking yours out, and providing measurements. Mine are 18 x 14.5 mm, exactly.

You're welcome.

Cheers

[Excelsior]

Nordland cyphers

Why bronze? They look more white ones to me.

They look very similar to the ones for sale at HH (Collection M.Butler).

For die-stamped ones have a neat precision.

I would say

Just my two cents.

Regards

[Fritz]

Why bronze? They look more white ones to me.

That puzzled me too, I think though that this is patina. Based on those pics I couldn't be sure what color they once had. Those with silver wash (when in decent condition) look very bright.

Cheers

[RobertE]

They sure look bronze finished to me. Panzer Grenandier Regiment Nordland wore cypher in 1943-1943 in white embroidery for enlisted, white metal for NCOs, and bronze for officers. I'm not sure why, but that was the published color/material scheme.

If that's accurate, these would be officer cyphers from the regiment.

s/f Robert

[Fritz]

They also existed in a gild variant (for officers), if indeed "bronce" toned (not owed to patina) I think they might be an earlier type.

Cheers

[SJP]

Robert, I thought they looked die stamped. There is a excellent generation of die cast cyphers out (LAH) which share some traits as yours.
Thanks for posting them.
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Cheers Steve

[Fritz]

When Steve airs a concern regarding ss cyphers it should be considered.

At this stage I still think these have a chance. The bronce tone is unusual with "N" cyphers (anyhow to me), I know it from earlier "D" cyphers etc. though.

All the edges look "relatively" even, they look crisp all over and they seem to have a flaw that I like, also the prongs look correct.

I will, if time permits, take pictures of mine tomorrow and will try to measure them accurately (they are on straps with a pip to each end).

Cheers

[RobertE]

Fritz, good discussion additions, thanks. By regulation, these were supposed to be bronze for officers, and silver/white metal for NCOs. It was the defualt color for them, though I think officers and NCOs both shared the silver types throughout the war. Thanks for attacking the measurement again - it's tougher when they're mounted.

Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, but you were commenting on the fact that high-quality cast replicas of LAH cyphers continue to make the rounds, not that you believe these to be cast, correct? The single flat prong used with both ends sharpened is a common original feature - at least for other cyphers and devices I've seen.

s/f Robert