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    A College Boy needs some help

    Hey guys, as some of you might know, I'm a senior this year at the University and will graduate with dual bachelors in History and German language and culture in May of this year. As a senior in History, as opposed to taking what they call a capstone course, I have chosen to write a "senior honors thesis". This will allow me to graduate with departmental honors, finish out my required credits, and will give me a great writing sample for law school applications I'm also working on.

    I am writing my thesis on the Culture of the SS. How it was perceived by high leaders within the SS as well as German society during the Third Reich. As this is supposed to be graduate level work, I am required to enlist the use of a multitude of first hand sources. Right now I'm looking for documents/instructions/books that relate to SS Culture. This can mean, marriage rituals and anything associated with supposed "Germanic Culture". I am also going to post this under the wanted section, but I am looking for simply photo copies and such of most of these things or whatever I can get ahold of. Even the Julleuchter document would be useful.

    #2
    This thread may be of interest ... http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=438494

    Good luck with your project.

    Ian

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      #3
      I am guessing you have seen Robert Koehl's book (my undergraduate advisor) and articles. He cites all his primary sources and spent decades researching his work. I would use that as a springboard if you were not aware of it.

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        #4
        If you haven't already, your going to want to hunt down a copy of the SS Family, there is a US translation published by Ulric of England and also available on the web. You may want to contact a forum member with an actual period German copy as you never know what may have been lost or misinterpreted in translation.

        Maybe also "Order of the Death's Head" by Heinz Höhne?

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          #5
          ''supposed'' germanic culture

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            #6
            Hey guys appreciate everything so far. If anyone has original copies of the SS family/wedding maunal or any other related books that they would be willing to photo copy important things from or sell i guess let me know.

            AS for "supposed" cultre. I was insinuating most of the "ancient germanic culture" that Rosenberg and Himmler thought they were ressurecting or pretended to was taken out of context, egerated, or completly made up from legends and lore as well as their own imaginations. Take for instance the significance assigned to some of the "ancient germanic" runic symbols enlisted by the organization and its subsidiaries like the Ahnenerbe.

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              #7
              I can't help you out, but I wish you the best of luck with your work!!!!

              and I sure would appreciate a copy of it!

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                #8
                Originally posted by ETN View Post
                If you haven't already, your going to want to hunt down a copy of the SS Family, there is a US translation published by Ulric of England and also available on the web. You may want to contact a forum member with an actual period German copy as you never know what may have been lost or misinterpreted in translation.

                Maybe also "Order of the Death's Head" by Heinz Höhne?
                You can read the full original text of the Family book here: http://www.archive.org/stream/Weitze...e/n24/mode/1up

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by The Red Baron View Post
                  Hey guys appreciate everything so far. If anyone has original copies of the SS family/wedding maunal or any other related books that they would be willing to photo copy important things from or sell i guess let me know.

                  AS for "supposed" cultre. I was insinuating most of the "ancient germanic culture" that Rosenberg and Himmler thought they were ressurecting or pretended to was taken out of context, egerated, or completly made up from legends and lore as well as their own imaginations. Take for instance the significance assigned to some of the "ancient germanic" runic symbols enlisted by the organization and its subsidiaries like the Ahnenerbe.
                  Just out of curiosity were you aware of Koehl's work? It seems to have been overlooked now, as he said, he thought it was to objective and was sort of black listed. He was an OSS officer who was a masters student in German when the War started and then was recruited by the Army and had the responsibility of interrogating captured WSS officers for SHAEF. He is still alive but is not well. He still has copies of all of his original WWII files and notes !

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                    #10
                    Congrats, my EXACT double BA major 30 years ago...pm me if you like..

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Scott A. Hess View Post
                      Congrats, my EXACT double BA major 30 years ago...pm me if you like..
                      I love it, multiple ways to define "what happened" when everyone is dead. One of the reasons why I left history. Really sad defining the past is left to academia and their valets. Anyone who has experienced a dramatic event (s) knows it was only real in the context of it. IMO fictional narratives and interpretations of what happened are injustices and should be mute.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Johnny R View Post
                        I love it, multiple ways to define "what happened" when everyone is dead. One of the reasons why I left history. Really sad defining the past is left to academia and their valets. Anyone who has experienced a dramatic event (s) knows it was only real in the context of it. IMO fictional narratives and interpretations of what happened are injustices and should be mute.


                        Not sure really the point, or if Im reading somthing out of context, however are you implying that since we didnt "experience" those events, ie, WW2, the Holocaust, etc. we should not study or write about them?
                        I don't know anyone that fought in the civil war, or looked upon the Pharohs tombs as they were being built, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts you don't either, however, I fail to understand your point, being, we didnt live through it nor understand the context of what happened, thus, should be silent on the topic, not relook at history and what transpired when new and important documents are found (Himmler's appt book was found in the last ten years and sheds much light on the progression of Auschwitz from a poliitical camp to extermination/Kz...as do previously unavailable Soviet archives...etc etc..I could go on for volumes).
                        Don't think that sits well with most educated people, or people in general. I hope Im wrong, but having reread your comment several times..its strikes me as well..I'll just leave it at that.
                        As to "academia and their valets, well...again, what is that all about? Scratches head perplexed.......thought it was kinda cool that young people still find history, its lessons and teachngs relevant, and choose a path to understand what has come before us, maybe I should have focused harder on wood and metal shop. In a time/age when a lot of teenagers/young people don't even know who Stalin/Mao or Himmler was I find that pretty disturbing, and does not bode well for the future. The same logic would suggest that today's youth should abandon the study of history all together, and write about what, rap music, ipods, or new and improved ways to text, or develop politically correct terms to replace "old" speak language. I think your view is the one that Orwell in a very clear way warned against, the destruction of history. He who controls the past, controls the present, he who controls the present, controls the future. I do agree that there some revisionist historians who will distort history to fit a predetermined ideology, however, the study and writing of history unless you live in some strange doppelganger universe seems both important and relevant.
                        Last edited by Scott A. Hess; 09-06-2011, 11:10 PM.

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                          #13
                          Hi,

                          courtesy of my laptop I lost my two previous replies so for the third time here is my very small input on that topic.

                          The SS-Leithefte are – imo – the best documents to study the evolution of the culture and ideology in the SS during the 3rd Reich. From early 1936 to late 1944 (around 140 issues), twice a month/each month/each two months the SS-Leithefte proposed articles from various sources dealing with the german past, the “Blut und Boden” motto, the war (against who and why), the german future… You can see an evolution through the years, depending on the leaders (Wirth, Darre, Himmler etc). SS-Germanische Leithefte were released for Volksdeutsche in german and a few foreign languages (including “local” topics).
                          You can find many war issues (mostly from 1942 to 1944) online.

                          Great collections of SS-Hauptamt publications :
                          http://www.scribd.com/collections/2499675/WWII-German

                          One PDF and one book dealing with the use of the SS-Leithefte (amongst other subjects):
                          http://www.reto-stein.de/Weltanschauliche_Schulung.pdf

                          http://www.uni-muenster.de/Geschicht...ikationen.html

                          http://books.google.fr/books?id=h0oF...page&q&f=false

                          The recent biography of Longerich about Himmler is very interesting, but you probably already read it ? Highly recommended, a lot of infos about the cultural and ideological input of “Heini”

                          Other books, dealing with the german past (real or fictional one), “new” foundation of the 3rd Reich cultural way of life :

                          * “Germanien” magazines
                          http://www.od43.com/10x_SS-Ahnenerbe_Germanien.html

                          * Herman Wirth books (from or about) :
                          http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Wirth

                          http://uwebergverlag.de/product_info...tnnfckhe8va9r3

                          http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ura-Linda-Chronik

                          http://www.scribd.com/doc/30226880/H...-Linda-Chronik

                          A lot of other SS/NSDAP publications deal with the culture in the 3rd Reich, but for now I already can list those on the top of that post…

                          To find “first hand accounts” today is probably very hard, if not impossible. Luckily for us the SS and the other political organizations of the 3re Reich published a lot of documents from 1933 to 1945.

                          See You

                          Vince

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm somewhat embarrased for what was just said here about history; as a history student I think that claim is both unwarranted and outlandish. There is no reason history should be made "mute" simply becuase it can't fully capture the essence of what might have happened at a personal level. In fact, I would argue that events studied after the fact, through a multitude of sources, often offer a more clear and objective view of what took place and why, as opposed to a first hand story. Same reason you see the legitimacy of works like Doenitz's and Speer's being quesntioned as that they tend to offer a slanted and near too personal of an account of what happened. Especially when one is writing about themselves, facts are often smudged, thoughts differently revisited, and actions justified in different ways than the initial reasons.

                            As for this work, I really appreciate all the help that has been offered, you guys are great!

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                              #15
                              and no i was not aware of Koehl's work. Nor was it reccomended it to me by my thesis director, Professor Jonathon Sperber.

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