unknown collar tabs

[Christian L]

i found this at ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...291868630&rd=1

never seen such collar tabs before!
which unit is it?
original?
fantasy?

thanks much for our help christian

[Robin Lumsden]

Estonian Division.

There were several original variants, including those made locally.

This area is a minefield.

It's difficult to say from the photos whether these are right, wrong or indifferent.

[Sturmmann]

estonian - yes...fake - yes

[Tony Barto]

As fake as those baboon skulls floating around now...

[Sturmmann]

hehe...you are a really dumb ****

[Tony Barto]

Uh-huh...and I'm STILL waiting on that report from Delich that your partner spouted about over on GDC....

[Sturmmann]

???

[Gilles C.]

I always like when the seller does it the innocent way, talks about unknown collar tabs but just doesn't forget to mention that the item passed the UV-test. But it always works: 100 € for a pair of (obvious) fakes is pretty good. Credule collectors support a whole industry...

Regards
Gilles

[Robin Lumsden]

I wouldn't buy these either.

BUT:- before everyone starts jumping on the 'obvious fakes' bandwagon, take a look at pages 140-150 of David Littlejohn's Foreign Legions Vol. 4.

With so many 'obviously' original variants of this badge, photographed pre-'45, how can we be so sure from the poor photos that these ebay examples are so 'obviously' fakes??

In the words of David Littlejohn, who was studying the subject of Hitler's foreign volunteers before most of us were even born, and when there were Waffen-SS veterans aplenty to testify to what they wore, there were 'innumerable variants' of the Estonian patches. His book explains in detail why that was the case with this particular division.

Don't get me wrong.

I know most 'variants' are fakes and I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

I just feel sometimes that it's like the 'Emperor's New Clothes'. Somebody says something and everyone else feels obliged to agree.

There - that's me off my soapbox for tonight.

[Gilles C.]

Robin,
you are of course right when you stress all the various patterns that did exist, in this case it's much more the way the article is described than the item itself that made all alarm bells ring.
There is unfortunately little chance that I will ever be good at distinguishing good from bad SS items. As a matter of luck, eBay allows me to check the former items sold by this innocent person, determine through the way he described past items if he knows his militaria or not (using terms like kornblumenblau), check how many SS collar tabs he has already sold in the past...
I find it always a great philantropic gesture to take the risk to sell genuine ss collar tabs for the starting price of € 1.00.
This doesn't mean that bargains are not possible on Evil Bay, but maybe in other, more spontaneous conditions. The few times I felt sooooo much intelligent than other collectors, I ended with bad surprises and sellers denying to pay back.

Regards
Gilles