Leather m43 cap

[stoneagegixer]

Ok,

I spent part of the day trying to figure out the digital camera. Then I tried posting a picture but the site told me the pic is too big so here it goes again.
My German collection is probably not worth more than 5000$ can. so this item really stands out. Why?
1. I know its 100% original
2. I feel I might be one of few collectors in the world that might have one.

I know that there are people who will doubt it, I would too if my uncle didn't give it to me...
If anyone is interested I will add how he got the cap, but I think I might have already wrote it somewhere. I hope the pics finally work...

[stoneagegixer]

other view

[stoneagegixer]

top view

[stoneagegixer]

front view....the picture didn't turn up as well as I wanted it to. You can still see the stitching where the SS eagle used to be. Below the eagle is the needle marks from the smily face (camera didn't show that part )

[PaulR]

That is very interesting. I have never heard of a leather M43 before. That is an awesome find. I am suprised that no one else had placed a comment on the existance of this seemly rare item.

What is the story on this? I would be interested in hearing the background info on this. It seems that you have a real treasure there!

Thanks for sharing
Paul Reck

[MGN]

For sure a non-regulation cap, which is fine as long as you know where it came from. Would have to convince alot of people when and if its time to sell that. This is the problem with items like this.

Can you see that there was an eagle there and something underneath?
Why couldn't there been a KM eagle and cocakde?

I would ask for a better photo, but can you take it a bit clearer?

Thanks Michael

[stoneagegixer]

History of the cap.

My uncle as a 13 child (1945)was living about 40 km south of Budweiss in the Protectorate zone. He always told me of the stories of German troops around. Not until after the war did he and his friends notice there was a occupied bunker on the way to their school. At the closing of the war he mentioned the retrieting German troops. They were abandoning everything everywhere. They spent time playing in a tank that ran out of fuel. (I guess the batteries powered the turet??)They went fishing with granades. They had a collection of MP40's and other weapons that they chased rabbits with.
He told me that a large unit of troops were passing through the town. They paused and restocked any supplied they could get. (NO, they didnt' steal them. They actually purchased the food. Contrary to popular American/Soviet propaganda they didn't come through raping and pillaging). As my Uncle was taking German (it was mandatory) he conversed with a few guys. One troop asked him if he can get him some food. My uncle came back with eggs and some other tid bits that he scooped from his house. The troop gave him this hat as payment, i'm not sure if he gave him anything...
The hat did have a eagle there and a skull. My uncle a few years after the war took the insignia off and wore the thing around. After he just put it away and it came back out in the 90's.
I read a book on the Div 3rd reich. There was a mention that Otto Weidiger (sp???) Regiment was on the way to Prague to help with the evacuation. Could it be them that passed through his town??? Who knows, unless I get The regiment's daily events info I won't find out. By my uncles discription it sounded like the unit was travelling in a orderly fashion.
Anyway that is the story of the hat. The stiching on the front of it clearly shows a SS eagle but untill I get either a better camera or find out how I can get close ups with out blur this is the best I could do.
The value of the cap??? I was never selling it and probably will not, but someone offered me 1200$$$ CAnadian for it so I could say it's worth that...
Funny thing before I knew the value of it I wore it to school. A couple times I left it in the classroom only to return 5 min later and it was still there. After I found the value I left it home in a box.
Lubos

PS the things that remained after the war and were destroyed drives me crazy. My Granma in Law told me that at the end of the war. 5 SS Troops (she said they were just boys)were sleeping in her barn. Next morning villagers arrived with weapons and arrested them. They striped them of everything, took them to the forest and shot them. She took all the clothes medals items and BURNED IT ALL....AAAAAAAHHHHHHH.

[ReichsHeini]

leather cap

A really interesting and unique piece of headgear. I wonder if the Kriegsmarine utilized leather caps? Maybe a KM collector could tell us more. Possibly made for KM and converted by some WSS tanker? Maybe custom made for WSS directly? Some characteristics of the cap make me think so.
The sewing outline certainly looks to be in the shape of a SS cap eagle. The skull sewing outline is not visible in your picture. The leather looks aged, and worn properly for the age of the cap. . Central seam sewn through the lining is a good indicator of original wartime construction for WSS. It is cut like many WSS 1941 tropical caps, with faux sidepanels and central seam (sewn through lining) These are common features in WSS tropical caps. Liner looks good too.
It is too bad he removed the insignia because this cap would fetch a pretty penny I bet if it was still intact.
Somewhere I remember seeing a picture of a leather m-43 but I can't recall where or if it was SS or Heer.... I will check my files again.
My intuition tells me this thing was really used by WSS during war. I like this cap and would definately add it to my headgear collection if available!
Very cool!
Jerry

[BenVK]

Just out of curiosity, what did your uncle do with the eagle and skull? maybe it's still sitting in a draw somewhere if you're very lucky

[stoneagegixer]

Unfortunately my uncle has long moved from the house where he had the items. He told me that he buried a gas mask canister in the back yard. It contained some MP40 ammo, baynet and that is about it. I suppose when I visit my relatives I could ask the current owers if anything remained but...

He told me that near by the town there was a forest trail/road which the germans were using to get back to germany. He said it was mainly armoured vehicles (no tanks)and trucks that moved on it. When he walked on it after them, everywhere was german "junk". Helmets, supplies, clothing, boxes, weapons...
After the war a russian Div was camping in the forest and they supposedly left a bunch of "junk" around. Hopefully if I get a chance I'll get him to show me where this was.
A friend of mine in Czech that sold me most of my little collection showed me post war pics of roads and ditches around my hometown. It was filled for miles with helmets, weapons, boxes, medals, baynots....the pics were incredible.
Years ago he took a metal detoctor near there and found a box containing about a 100 medals for tank destruction. Its the medal with a Tank in the middle with reaves around it I think.
Just last year I had a M16 DD Black SS Helmet, which was "liberated" from the Statni Studios in the 50's. His friend's dad was a extra on a set and stole a prop. Most of the liner was gone. The only thing that was wrong with the helmet was the fact that someone (movie set, or Friends dad) touched up the helmet with black paint. When people saw it here they were affraid to touch it. I even had the Movie set picture with him in Original Allgemaine SS outfit +the helmet but I couldn't get rid of it for him. He was asking $1700 US dollars. In the end I send it to him and he kept it in his collection...

[Peter R.]

Never mind the medals and uniforms being burnt, I feel worse about those kids getting killed by a mob of villagers when they were so close to surviving the whole sorry mess. That's a sad event in anybodys language, regardless of the equally appalling acts German occupation no doubt brought.

If I could hazard a guess, those uniforms etc being burnt sounds like it might well have been a precautionary measure to ensure there's no evidence left of their act. Those villagers probably realized after the fact - when the initial rush of exacting revenge had subsided - that killing five defenceless people in cold blood was actually not something to be proud of. Not to mention, the risk that if the Germans re-occupied their area and found that evidence, there'd be big trouble for them.

I don't know that killing five defenceless people in cold blood would be something that most civilians would have resting easily on their mind, either, especially given time to reflect. They might not want anything to remind them hanging around.

I know a Dutch friend of our family who killed a German soldier barehanded by drowning him. He'd struggled with the memory of that act for the last 50 plus years. He was in the resistance, and said he had no choice at the time, it was either kill the soldier or be found out and be killled himself - plus probably his family, attendant torture to give up names, the whole shebang. Very sad situation and although it's easy to say he was justified in killing the soldier in self defence, it still weighed heavily on him. Taking five boys into a wood and killing them out of hand would probably weigh on minds even more.

As the allies were approaching in '44, my Dutch grandfather found a teenage German soldier in his backyard, trying desperately to get over the tall fence. Although he hated the Germans bitterly, he helped the kid over the fence instead of taking out four years of hardship on him. I always think well of him for having done that and hope that teenager made it through the last months of the war alive.

Pardon the little soliloqui, and certainly meaning no offence or slur on anybody's relatives or their wartime actions - just a general observation and
wondering about what people might have felt at the time.

Cheers
Peter

[stoneagegixer]

Hello Peter,

Don't worry about offending me...it wasn't my relatives that shot the kids. Half my family (father side) was assisting the Germans the other half suffered. My great uncle ended up being tortured by the Gestapo. He survived the ordeal but after the war commited suicide.
I probably didn't clearify, but my wife's grandma burned any remaining clothes that remained. At the end of the war anything GErman was deemed "filthy" and no one wanted anything like that around.
You think the villagers had a concience or after the war were worring about excecuting Germans? Believe me, I lived in Communst Czechoslovakia for 10 years (escaped in 1983 with my family)and all that I recall was how they brainwashed us. Capitalism to them was just as bad as Nazism/Facism. To the communists all Nazis were dogs to be whipped around...etc. I remember as a child finding some German WWII Documents in a pit. I brought them home and my parents freaked on me. They through it out and made me promise them that I will never mention it. Communism was so bad that I showed up at shool wearing a tshirt that was RED/White/Blue with white stars and they sent me home to change. They said it looked like the US flag. My parents had to go to school and explain themselves, why I had that shirt....
Anyway I'm getting from the topic. Those villagers probably got a medal after the war for "capturing" German soldiers and bringing them to "justice". Just like in the USSR, long after the war SS men were imprisoned there, serving time for their crimes.
I think there is a Czech War movie that just came out called something "Blue Sky..." It talks about a Czech pilot that escaped to Britain and fought the gErmans from there. After the war he returned "home" only to be arrested for conspiring with the capitalists "Britain". He was in a work prison and the doctor that treated them was a SS Doctor, who of course was a prisoner there also. Remember that after the war it was all about payback, not about justice...just look at the Nuremburg trials. How does that quote go....Justice is for the victors and the defeated the vanquished....
I can't even remember Goering Quote...hell its 0330 hrs my brain is mush right now. Anyway rent the movie, it will open up your eyes.

Lubos

[Peter R.]

Sorry, didn't quite realise that happened in the East (if I can include Chechoslovakia in the East) - yes things were a little different there. Congrats on getting out when you did, in 83 getting away wouldn't have been a picnic!