what a shame

[John Pic]

I cant believe this thread is still at the top.

[HERMSDORF]

IMO It´s really a Shame

Damned History Destroyers
I can´t feel any Comprehensions for that

...and never for that F... Money


Andy

[skippp]

I have a nice lw grouping I can't get rid of,


so ... it stays here...

it's that simple

[Bob Hritz]

This hobby is getting so irrelevant because everyone is looking to get rich off of it. The argument "well you didnt by it when it was offered intact is silly", I mean would you tear apart a unique ferrari to sell it for the parts because you couldnt sell it whole? Bob when the time comes to sell your collection would you sell it to someone who said he would burn it all?

Whoever buys my collection may do with it as they see fit. It is not my business what anyone else does with their property. I am a personal property rights advocate.

This discussion is just silly. The album was for sale and no one wanted it. Now that it is separated, apparantly everyone would have, could have, should have bought it. If it is not your property, it is not your business. Shame on you for not buying it to 'protect history', if that is your outlook. No one to blame but those who claim they wish to preserve history, at someone else's expense.

Bob Hritz

[Chris Boonzaier]

I partially agree with Bob.

Part I dont agree with is we can do anything to what we own, no matter what.
Technically we can do a lot of stuff that morally we should avoid. In holland a 65 year old man can technically have a 15 year old girlfriend, but I would not invite such a person for a beer.

However, the seller did offer it as a lot, and IMHO not too overpriced. You see single photos going for over EUR500 on ebay... and here is a piece of "history" up for sale and the SS collectors prefer to spend their EUR450 on a "third variation, model six Deschler skull" ....

It is a huge pity that he split it up, but seriously, everyone had their chance to save it... so here we have a piece of history not worth EUR450 to the seller, but worth that to 20 collectors who in turn were not prepared to buy it.... see where the problem is?

It is a "put your money where your mouth is" standoff.

[John T]

---. In holland a 65 year old man can technically have a 15 year old girlfriend,---

That is because men of such age are making laws and not those who favor the welfare of minors, everything is relative.

[Herbert Wolter]

Indeed a sad fate. However, rather than continue to condemn, do what I’ve done: download the images of both the album and the individual photos for sale while they’re still available so as to have a record of the album’s existence for posterity. Then move on to other things.

[Chris Boonzaier]

That is because men of such age are making laws and not those who favor the welfare of minors, everything is relative.

Indeed, but what I mean is... freedoms are there, some we like, some we dont... and when someone excercises his freedom we have to respect that he technically has the right to do so... even if we dont approve.

[John Pen.]

I partially agree with Bob.
Part I dont agree with is we can do anything to what we own, no matter what.
Technically we can do a lot of stuff that morally we should avoid. In holland a 65 year old man can technically have a 15 year old girlfriend, but I would not invite such a person for a beer.

Indeed, but what I mean is... freedoms are there, some we like, some we dont... and when someone excercises his freedom we have to respect that he technically has the right to do so... even if we dont approve.

Chris,
Respectfully......
Here we go with the moral police again.
We should stay out of peoples bedrooms(although I admit a 15 y.o. begins to enter a "moral gray area").
And I believe moral judgement is meaningless against anyone choosing to burn all of their possessions, regardless of an item's importance (although I suppose a State/ "the people" could and should obtain an ultimately important item through "eminent domain" laws).

I believe in freedom. The "bossy" Nazi's were crushed in 1945. Good riddance to all dictators.


Jp

P.s. I think this thread is valid because there are so many different opinions and it really goes to the "heart" of a contradiction in the realm of collecting and dispersing of objects.

P.s.s btw, and IMO.... eminent domain laws are automatically another "gray area", that's why the cases nearly always end up in the courts.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Chris,

I believe in freedom. The "bossy" Nazi's were crushed in 1945. Good riddance to all dictators.
.

Sigh... of course... people are free...

But... and I hate to drag this down but need to make the point...

In some countries its legal for a woman to blow a horse... i wont interfere...

But if she then asks me for a date and a french kiss I am going to turn her down...

People are free to do what they like... and I am free not to like what they do.

So...

1) This guy is free to rip the album
2) I am free not to like it
3) The people who were complaining were free to buy it... but didnt...
4) I am free to think the guy was within his rights, even if I dont like them
5) I am free not to french kiss a woman who has just blown a shetland pony.
6) Everyone here is free to agree or disagree with all of the above.

Now I am off for a free beer....

[John Pen.]

.............
..........
1) This guy is free to rip the album
2) I am free not to like it
3) The people who were complaining were free to buy it... but didnt...
4) I am free to think the guy was within his rights, even if I dont like them
5) I am free not to french kiss a woman who has just blown a shetland pony.
6) Everyone here is free to agree or disagree with all of the above.

Now I am off for a free beer....

Totally agree.......and..........
Free Beer for all(over the "gray area" age of 15)!!!!

J.p

[IchHattEinenKameraden]

Obviously some people do not understand the responsibility that comes with historical objects. This photograph album example shows how barbaric some treat historical objects and only see it as an item to make profit from it.

The whole, "you should have bought it when it was still an actual album" sentiment is ludicrous because it is not normal to breakup a photograph album.

The thought of a relative who is looking for this album but eventually finds out it has been destroyed, is just heartbreaking.

[Wim Vangossum]

There is always a certain responsibility when handling valuable things from the past. You may have all money of the world, you are no more then a safe keeper of those things for future generations.
I agree it has no sense to pick out just one situation because this horrible things happen frequently. But saying "It's his stuff and he can do want he wants with it" reminds me what that idiot GI once did with the Göring Marschall Dagger. Thousends of GI's took there souvenirs to America and kept them intact for decades, only that stupid single person ruined an unique dagger for selling the diamonds separated.

If you once bought a complete specimen of something, you have to wait for another costumer who want to pay the price. Woulden't dare to think what could happens to some world important pieces of art if the owners may do what they want with it.

Regards, Wim

[Brig]

On morals...the entire subject is a gray area. Every man has his own set of morals that he abides by. Just because it doesn't coincide with the majority of society's idea of morals, doesn't make him immoral. People try far too often to govern everybody else based on their own morals. It's been happening since the dawn of man, when one person decided to believe in a different God than the others...

As for photo albums...they get broken up all the time, it's not an unusual occurance. Look at the back of a stack of period photos from any country...bet a good bunch have glue and paper remnants on them.

At the Dagger dismembered by the GI. To the victor goes the spoils. If you had just fought a war, seen your buddies killed and held them in your arms, killed your fellow man, and avoided those who tried to kill you...would you really care about preserving their stuff? Especially one directly symbolic to those you fought? To call him an idiot GI...he brought it back after fighting a war. All sides defaced stuff all the time, but we call it history and sell it as 'trench art'.

Two ways to look at everything I suppose...

I'm not stating I agree with, against, etc, etc...I'm just trying to stimulate the thought process. As a veteran myself who brought back trophies...I can tell you they're only preserved because I am a collector, not an average joe. Most guys just toss the stuff in the foot locker...and since it happened not to break, we call it 'preserved'

[judas]

I believe that if you own a piece of history then it is your moral responsibility to keep that piece of history intact for future generations. I personally did not see the album for sale until the state it is in now.

An example - in Cairo recently museums belonging to 'the people' were destroyed in the furuor of the demonstrations. Was that right ? Was that their right as 'the people' 'the owners' to be able to do this, I think not.