Is this SS-Verfuegungstruppe or what?

[webr55]

Hello,

this is a pic of a SS-Rottenfuehrer, taken about 1935 or 1936. Unfortunately it is not very clear.
I don't know much about SS uniforms: Can anyone help me whether this guy is from Allgemeine SS or SS-Verfuegungstruppe? Or anything else about this uniform (is that a party badge on his tie?)

Thanks
webr55

[Robin Lumsden]

He's an Allgemeine-SS Rottenfuehrer, with Old Guard chevron. Party Badge on the tie. If the collar patch is '88' (difficult to read) he's from Bremen. It's fairly unusual to see the second pattern cap eagle alongside the first pattern skull - it's usually the other way around.


Regards,

Robin.

[webr55]

Thanks! Old Guard chevron, is that the "Winkel" on the right arm? And what does it mean?
I have two other photos of this guy and others of the same unit. These are even unclearer, however: The first one was taken at the Olympic Games in 1936, the guy is the second from the left. And the second one shows other members of the same unit, without caps, however.

[Robin Lumsden]

Nice pictures.

The collar patch is clearer in the last photo. They're from the 80th SS Standarte, based in Berlin, which would make sense with the Olympic Games.

[webr55]

Thanks for the help!

webr55

[Stephan Wahl]

Not all Black SS Helmets Allgemeine?????

I have a question…Both my grandfather and my uncle were in the SSTK Oberbayern. My Grandfather was in from 1937 to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:date Month="9" Day="17" Year="1941">Sept 17<SUP>th,</SUP> 1941</st1:date> when he was wounded in an artillery barrage at <st1:City>Lushno</st1:City>, <st1:country-region>Russia. </st1:country-region></ST1 Many of his unit were killed in the barrage. Anyway, I was hoping you could clear this up for me. My grandfather says (and his wedding photo proves it) he wore a black uniform and helmet from 1937 until he went into combat, when he was reissued a grey one. I hear everybody, including the Dr. from Warelics.com saying, “Well, if it’s a black SS helmet, it is Allgemeine SS, regardless of finish.”

<O></O>

Now, I don’t want to put words in anybodies mouth, but if you read this, doctor, and you want to correct or modify your statement, please feel free.

<O></O>

Anyway, I asked my grandfather if he was ever considered to be in the All-SS. He said no. But, he had a Black M35 DD….???? So did my uncle… Does this mean, as I suspect, that not all Black M35 DD SS helmets are Allgemeine helmets??????

[TMurray]

Stephan

my understanding is that the 'black' SS helmet was for use by elite guards and for ceremonial purposes only by members of the A-SS, with the black M35 being withdrawn in 1939. On that basis, perhaps the black M35 was 're-issued' at a later date, but I wouldve thought it was repainted?!maybe your g/f transferred from the A-SS to the W-SS? dont forget, the vast majority of A-SS members held administrative roles and only a few were the 'elite' which we see with Hitler and outside the Reichs Chancellory. Do not believe all that the good Herr Docktor from Warelics tells you.
rgds Thomas

[darryl-P]

I have a question…Both my grandfather and my uncle were in the SSTK Oberbayern. My Grandfather was in from 1937 to <st1:date month="9" day="17" year="1941">Sept 17^th, 1941</st1:date> when he was wounded in an artillery barrage at <st1:city>Lushno</st1:city>, <st1:country-region>Russia. </st1:country-region> Many of his unit were killed in the barrage. Anyway, I was hoping you could clear this up for me. My grandfather says (and his wedding photo proves it) he wore a black uniform and helmet from 1937 until he went into combat, when he was reissued a grey one. I hear everybody, including the Dr. from Warelics.com saying, “Well, if it’s a black SS helmet, it is Allgemeine SS, regardless of finish.”

<o ="">></o>>

Now, I don’t want to put words in anybodies mouth, but if you read this, doctor, and you want to correct or modify your statement, please feel free.

<o ="">></o>>

Anyway, I asked my grandfather if he was ever considered to be in the All-SS. He said no. But, he had a Black M35 DD….???? So did my uncle… Does this mean, as I suspect, that not all Black M35 DD SS helmets are Allgemeine helmets??????

Stephan,

Most black SS helmets were indeed SS-VT helmets. It's very rare that you will see photos of the Allgemeine-SS (the numbered SS Standartes) wearing them...although they do exist. Most photos you will see of SS in black uniform wearing black helmets are assigned to a VT unit such as LAH, SS2 (Germania) or SS3 (Der Fuhrer). The SS runes will be seen on their right collar patch. The numbered Standarte troopers of the Allg-SS are normally seen wearing their issue visor caps.

Years ago most collectors referred to anything SS and black as "allgemeine". This was due to historical and organizational ignorance of the SS as a whole. It's not bad...it's just that collector's didn't know as much as we do today.