Originally posted by Gaspare
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If the rumor (?) of forgery continues to propagate, and overall faith in such an item is destroyed, do you truly believe this line of thought will prevail - even for those HR's that are completely genuine? Personally, I am not so sure . . . and sadly, I think many collectors are beginning to realize this. -
Rings
I agree with Gaspare's statement about being lucky to get a TKRing many years ago, when good fakes were virtually non-existent. BUT - I think there's an over-reaction concerning fakes. I'll explain - Just yesterday a TK ring was posted - "Ruhl" Go read the reaction. Any controversy? John Peppera posts any of his rings - Any controversy? Anyone EVER buy a totenkopfring from Don Boyle or his friend Andy that has issues? No and again, NO. $64,000 QUESTION: IF THE FRANK RING IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NEW "SUPER-FAKES", WHY IS IT RADIOACTIVE? NOTHING WRONG WITH THE HOBBY. WE JUST NEED TO TRY TO WEED OUT, OR AT LEAST BE ABLE TO QUESTION THE PHONY OR QUESTIONABLE RINGS INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING UP. IF NOT, THE FORUM IS USELESS.Comment
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I really dont understand CG in this matter.
Eckardt Totenkopf Ring no COA $4,995.00
Moser Totenkopf Ring Don Boyle COA $7,295.00
Kummer Totenkopf Ring Don Boyle COA $9,995.00
von Salisch Totenkopf Ring Don Boyle says its a fake $11,995.00
Am I missing something??Comment
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TKRing
Mr. Fettes - Since you mentioned the "Eckardt" ring, look at the engraving in the 6th picture from the left, and tell me if you think it looks right.Comment
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"Do you think that all collectors have this information discussed here on WAF? I bet not. Is this covered so thoroughly in all the other forums? "
John,,yes I do.. i know my guys on GDCs Ring forum understand,,the German forum site surely does, the Russian site also..
Ring collectors are usually the same core group of guys just like SS cloth , daggers and everything else. .
Most prefer private purchase rings anyway.. An authentic black enamel SS runic ring is way rarer than the run of the mill HR any day.. Those that do strive for an authentic HR look for an early pattern in good condition and preferably out from an older collectors collection.. HRs to infamous personalities, known combat officers, major award winners,etc. are and will always be desirable too.
N.C. W.,, when you look at John P.s, Andy [MilitaryNut] HRs, and other large collections from years ago,,,they are 'one lookers' , everything as it should be. No variations, weird engravings, etc. Take a look at a few of the pinned topics on GDCs ring forum,,there are still many wonderful HRs there to study...Last edited by Gaspare; 10-28-2010, 12:09 AM.Comment
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Have now looked at the engraving. Looks like it was made with a ball point pen in a bit of play dough.Comment
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Maybe Craig will follow ebays example, and put a "Make an offer!" button by his rings.Comment
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I'm with you, Gaspare . . . but I wonder how many people of the future will continue to invest the same amount of effort and time this way as we do - and will have the faith and courage to trust there own judgement in determining these "one lookers"? I'm sure there will always be some . . . but with all of the continued talk/rumor (and practice?) of forgery, and the ever-growing controversy that is associated with the rumored (?) forgery, wouldn't one conclude that, eventually, future collectors might lose interest, and/or turn there backs on collecting these things? With all the bad publicity going around, I would expect it to have some effect in time . . . and once the forgers have completed the perfect forgery (of which I believe will eventually occur), how would anyone know, especially if a newly forged ring comes with an engraved name, properly attributed to a recipient who's ring has not yet been found to date? Who is to say a forger won't just take all of those old photos of the good rings, and make a million identical duplicates - using the same recipient's name inside even? Could this happen? I think so. What would that do for these rings? I don't know . . .Originally posted by Gaspare View Post
I know - the same old, tired questions that keep coming up - but for some reason, they never go away, do they?
I do still enjoy looking at these rings . . . but all these thoughts I mention still keep me at bay for ever considering to begin collecting them . . .
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Eckardt TK Ring
That one picture tells the whole story. (6th photo from the left) If someone is able to post the photo here, it would be very helpful. (Similar to the "Frank" ring, which (IMO) tried to emphasize the generous scalloping on the leaves of an original, but scalloped them too much!!) IMO, the "Eckardt" ring unsuccessfully attempts to duplicate the WIDE ENGRAVING STYLE found on 30.6.34 rings. At first glance, it looks OK, but compared to other known originals, falls far short in having the quality of Gahr engraving. Frankly, I wasn't completely convinced until I saw that particular photo. I have cast silver jewelry, INCLUDING inscriptions, so I know exactly what it looks like. (The guy who cast it is reading this and sadly nodding affirmatively) It's EXTREMELY HARD to duplicate in wax, the fine strokes applied by an old-time German engraver. The poorly formed leaves are another red flag. You be the judge on this one. DISCLAIMER: THE OPINIONS I EXPRESS ARE OPINIONS ONLY, AND ARE EXPRESSED SOLELY TO HELP OTHER COLLECTORS. THEY ARE NOT MADE TO SUGGEST OR IMPLY DISHONESTY ON THE PART OF ANY SELLER OF SUCH ITEMS.Comment
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I like this little quote on Craigs site...
This box appears on page 83 of my book on Totenkopf rings. This is the rarest box, the only one like it known to exist. It comes with a Don Boyle certificate (for those who still need them)
what does that insinuate????sounds like he is trying to use reverse psychology there just a bit!?
I can see his little informed peanut gallery chuckling on that one.Comment
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You guys are truly hysterical.Comment
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Hysteria
Hysterical in what regard?Comment
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* What's hysterical is because all this bull, mis-information, backbiting, over inflated prices, the HR market is deader than dead... A recent posting on a early pattern HR didn't even get any looks or comments for a while....Comment
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Hr
I tend to disagree with the premise that you just can't be sure anymore when you purchase a TK ring. If that's true, why are some rings being "questioned"? And why are some rings NOT questioned? Someone brought up the "Ekhardt" totenkopfring for example. Just look at the "S.lb." on the ring, and if you can't even tell that the "cast" inside engraving is different than the fine, hand engraving of an original, then you have no business even buying a totenkopfring. It's basically no different than ANY valuable artifact, that people fake for profit. What? - They don't fake Knight's Crosses? On forums like this, with so many SS collectors having rare artifacts, we tend to forget that, in the grand scheme of things, original totenkopfrings ARE really rare. That is why many collectors hang onto them until you have to pry them from their dead, clenched hands. So what's out there is what is left - some real, and many fake. Anyone who is seriously interested in purchasing an original Totenkopfring in ANY condition should just contact Andy at the Military Nut. All the TK rings he sells automatically come with a DB COA, and you don't hear anyone questioning ANY of them. Everyone's reacting as though you just can't tell. That may be true with the "average" collector who isn't willing to spend the time to study and try to learn. Original Totenkopfring "bargains" are extremely rare, unless you're VERY LUCKY !!Comment
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