HR and box

[Thorsten B.]

For sure some were "made privately" - just not in the period, you know?

[james m]

Quote:
"Is it possible that some were made privately, so in the end, both methods were used?"
Jp
I hate to even contemplate the reaction of Himmler the first time he got wind of "unauthorized private production" of one of his award rings!
The method of TK ring production,Die Stamping, is well known and accepted by the overwhelming majority of those in the collecting community. Those who claim otherwise have an equally well known and different "agenda" in proposing rubber mold manufacture.
Jim

[Larry Lipps]

Since I've no dog in this fight, this is my final participation in this thread. I've no issues with Don, Craig, or anyone in this hobby and want to keep it that way. Don certified my ring and box about ten years ago, and was kind enough to fill in the gaps of the rings history I didn't know since it came from a deceased collector's estate. He had known the original owner and tried to get him to let him include it in his book. The owner would not allow any photos of the ring or case; of which I'm beginning to understand his reasoning. As promised however, I brought the case to the MAX in the hopes that an examination by knowledgeable collectors could help spread information throughout the collecting community. NOBODY showed up to look at it. Craig saw me leaving the show on Saturday and asked if he could take some additional photos. When I get the case back from Craig, it will have seen the last daylight it's going to see on my watch. This whole thread has, in my opinion, become a massive witch hunt and I don't want anything else to do with it.

[Thorsten B.]

Witch hunt?

This is a collector´s forum and everybody is free to participate - or not.

The only difference is that some are interested in the truth and others are interested in the money.

I think that we can easily get in common about that.

[sgstandard]

Witch Hunt

The expression "witch hunt" may impliy false accusation, but that doesn't mean there are no witches. Witch + caldron = Lost Wax Casting

[John Pen.]

Quote:

I hate to even contemplate the reaction of Himmler the first time he got wind of "unauthorized private production" of one of his award rings!Jim

Excellent point! but maybe it was that the same respect/fear would have a recipient do whatever it took to replace a "lost"* ring, as to not offend der BOSS!
anyway, anything is possible I suppose! An interesting debate anyway.
Cheers contributors!Jp
...may we one day know the answers...and agree!


*including using rubber mold method from buddies ring.

[leib1]

So if a ring doe's not have the die flaws for any year it's a fake ?
Best Jamie

[John Pen.]

So if a ring doe's not have the die flaws for any year it's a fake ?
Best Jamie

That seems to be the majority consensus, but not all agree.
Personally, I have no f'n idea.
Jp

[sgstandard]

Ring

The question SHOULD be: "Why would anyone buy an expensive and rare item that deviates from virtually all other know originals?"

[Bob Hritz]

I have an original box, but after all this, I have no desire to own a ring.

Bob Hritz

[N.C. Wyeth]

I have an original box, but after all this, I have no desire to own a ring.

Bob Hritz

Same with me . . .

[sgstandard]

Rings

I am curious why everyone gets spooked by totenkopfrings, when virtually every high priced Third reich item is reproduced, and in some cases, quite well. I STILL contend that if you post a decent original TK ring that hasn't been altered, on the forum, that most experts will agree that the ring is original. I hate to reiterate, but ever notice when heavyweights like John Pepera post their beauties? Do you ever see the turmoil that surrounds some rings? NO !!It's been at least a couple days now, and there is STILL no one coming forward with a questionable ring they got from Mr. Boyle. Since Don is apparently the devil incarnate, SOMEONE should be able to produce a ring he sold that is questionable. Still waiting........................................

[sgstandard]

Rings

And "waiting" is what we're going to have to do. What makes you think, that after Don's 25 or 30 years of experience with these items, that someone would really come forward NOW? No, contrived YouTube videos don't count!!

[Gaspare]

"Is it possible that some were made privately" No, absolutely not.

sgs, you won't find anyone that had a HR bought from Don, or thru Don ,that has had a problem..


Every late pattern HR from the beginning to just this ring have the flaws. I have 2 good friends,,one has 20 [?] HRs, most being the late [pattern,,the other has 8, again most being the late pattern, ALL they're late pattern rings have the flaws..I've seen John Ps. collection of HRs,,all his late pattern rings have the flaws, I've been the moderator on GDCs Honor ring forum for 10 years now,,every late pattern HR ever shown there has had the flaws. even the best of copies strive to have the flaws!

And John your right! IF the ring was investment cast only the first run [if even that many] would have it and no others. By the 2nd production run the rings would have been all perfect. The HR was not investment cast just this factor alone dispels this misinformation. It was not die struck either. Those that know say they were die cast,,,anyway we're getting ahead of ourselves..
* So why has every HR ever shown to date have the flaws yet this one does not yet its considered authentic ?

[Naval Enigma]

OK. Mr. Boyle's COA mentions two missing die flaws. Mr. Gottlieb has posted images of die flaws present on one of the rune panels.

Was Mr. Boyle referring to that specific rune panel and associate flaws? Or was he referring to other flaws he may use (and keep to himself) to authenticate. Are there not multiple die flaws (or casting flaws) per ring?

I love these rings. But I'll stick to simple stuff like SS cloth for now!

And P.S: wouldn't an Xray easily determine if the silver was die-struck or cast? I am sure there are tests that can reveal internal metal structures. I do not know if they are non destructive or not.