SS Jacket - original or repatched ?

[P-E]

Hello everybody,

I need your expertise about one jacket I have in my collection. Someone told me it's a fake. Another guy told me it's a good one...and I'm absolutely not specialist in that sort of item. So your help is welcome.

Here's the jacket :

















Any helps is welcome. Thanks in advance !

P-E

[ETN]

I can't comment on the jacket itself, but the insignia on it is all fake. Plus, the Volunteer sleeve shield would not have been worn on an LAH tunic. Sorry.

[NickG]

Besides all the fake insignia that are on it, another descrapancy;
Its a 6 button Heer pattern! with green collar (added?) could be period ugrade...

BUT it totally lacks belt support holes ???
Were the skirt pockets moved up?

It has clear traces of Heer breast eagle still visible...
So my hunch is that it still has a chance to possibly be a good salty Heer uniform,
but with repro SS insignia...

To make sure, are pictures of liner available? That would explain the missing belt support holes!
and images of the cuff slit area...tapered or rectangular?
It might have a chance still...(as a salvageable Heer tunic) ...Definately never was SS!!

[jacquesf]

Crapola.

[wh014d4394]

only one thing for it.go smash his face in who sold it to you

[Richard P]

Crapola.

Jacques,

Is that a brand name of South African crayons...we have Crayola brand here in the states?

P-E

Sorry about your tunic, a look inside should answer whether it is salvageable or not.

Richard

[P-E]

Thanks for your response all. Here's pictures of inside.





Hope it can help to ID. To be honest, I get it from an old man who has around 80 and his sons won't be collector so he sells/trades all his collection for cheap price. This guy has a fantastic collection of WWI and empire. He explains me he had this jacket more than 30 years before. And I know him very well, and he doesn't lie...

He traded me this jacket for a really low price two years ago and now, each month he comes back again to know if he can trade again the jacket. But well, love it...so I keep it.

And well, I know nothing on german WW2 uniforms. That's why I register on this forum. But well, words as "crapola" won't help me to know some more...

Why are patches fake ? They look realy old ?! And for jacket, I don't understand because someone also told me 6 buttons aren't SS, but when I do some research I found :

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=355117&page=5

http://www.collect-militaria.com/ind...s/page2591.htm

http://www.thebatteryrelics.com/worldwar2.html

They are all SS, all 6 buttons....So are they all fake ? or other models ?

Thanks again for response.

P-E

[jacquesf]

Crapola is Hungarian for "very, very nice jacket with old looking field applied insignia , bought from an old collector". Jacques

[Mainemilitaria]

P-E,

None of us know everything....but I've been a serious collector for over 50 years now.....started when the stuff "wasn't worth anything!".....and still collect with a true "passion" for the history & symbolism these items represent.
Of course, it's a differant world out there now.....but I try to be 100% honest in my "dealings" and my "opinions".

That said, I agree with the negitive comments on your tunic. Probably strarted as an original Army....modified to make it something very special....but it's not.
Could be 15-20 years old (the alteration) but not original....gives me no pleasure.....The old guy you bought/traded it from probably knows it a fake....so remember the next time you "deal" with him....your choice, of course.
But BUYER BEWARE!.......this wouldn't have fooled anyone in the know.. and believe me, he knew!

Just to clear up a quote.....it's CRAPOLA with an R, not CraYola the crayon (with a Y).

I wish it was a nice W-SS tunic....but it's not! Either bring it back or learn from the experiance about who your dealing with....I've waited a lifetime for something like this myself! (Have/had my share, however!)

Any "SS" stuff (ands most normal stuff nowadays) has "the Berlin Wall" to cross before being accepted as original. "90" % is fake/played with.....there are some real experts here....use them to help you through this Minefield!
I wish it had been around when I was young....I've bought/traded good stuff for my share of CRAPOLA, too! We all have! It's part of the "game" - but learn!
Best of "luck"....but beware always!
John G.
Mainemilitaria USA

[P-E]

Hey Jacques, sorry, I didn't realize you're a South Africa man who speak Hungarian. Now it's clear. Thanks for this crucial information. I help me so much to ID my jacket. You're the best

Ok, so more seriously. If I summarize the comments of all others serious responses I received, it's an original Heer pattern jacket with all fake SS patches. Right ?

And not necessary to be sorry guys, I told you I traded it for a really cheap price, so no problem for me !

And for others jackets on these websites ?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=355117&page=5

http://www.collect-militaria.com/ind...s/page2591.htm

http://www.thebatteryrelics.com/worldwar2.html

They are all SS, all 6 buttons and only one of them has belt attachment....So are they all fake ? or other models ?

thanks for response.

P-E

[Niederlande]

Hello P.E.,

The only advice I can give you is; to trade it back and ask on this forum for opinions first before you buy/trade something..

[collado250]

As always criticize something, I'll do new friends ... To me it ALL back copy. The button's hole of the jacket are made as form of the shirts. There are jackets with these button's hole, but only 44 MLOs have seen the end of war IMO

[NickG]

Why are patches fake ? They look realy old ?! And for jacket, I don't understand because someone also told me 6 buttons aren't SS, but when I do some research I found :

They are all SS, all 6 buttons....So are they all fake ? or other models ?

Thanks again for response.

P-E

Regarding insignia, looking old means nothing...these are known fake patterns
Flemish shield btw never even existed manufactured like that. There is a whole series of fake legion patches like that for many countries and this one is actually a fake of a Flemish Org Todt shield...not even Waffen SS...The LAH cuff title is a classic fake salt and pepper backing type and the SS flashes on the tabs are too skinny for it to be real! The shoulder straps (panzer pink?) appear to be great coat length...

Back to the tunic now the interior has been shown:
based on the lining image it is indeed not a standard combat tunic which explains the lack of belt support ramp holes...

Regarding your comparison; You were looking at officers tunics in those links... which usually have full liners, French cuffs and often 6 buttons...as those links show. Some are also questionable again btw. So you are comparing apples with pears...

Enlisted SS tunics (no French cuffs, no dagger hanger slot, belt support holes, partial liner etc...) have ONLY 5 buttons always unless its a (period) modified Heer types with 6 buttons (mid war)... Heer started also with 5 buttons early on. SS never switched!

This tunic is not a standard pattern combat tunic, nor it is an officers tunic based on the cuffs...
eventhough the collar is wide enough for it to be an officers piece. IMO its just a bad fake with even worse insignia...Looking at the construction its most likely an older fake...(with really bad insignia). Sorry!

[Fred Fokkelman]

Less is more!

[P-E]

Ok, thanks a lot for your response all. I'm happy to know some more about this jacket, despite she had fake patches.

The jacket/tunic himself (so without insignia) is an original or a fake ? Well, maybe it's hard to tell with pictures, but if necessary I can take others pictures in next days.

Thanks again for your response.

P-E