skull and eagle sets....

[SScollector]

I know several do not value them up with the top end prices, but online, you will spend time finding a CupAl skull with both prongs for less than $1,000.00 and you certainly will have a time finding a nice CupAl eagle with that much finish for under $1,000.00. Ones like that are premium pieces and they do not grow on trees. Anyway, then the late Assmann eagles are around $400.00 and your average CupAl eagles are at least $650.00 and that is a nice 499/42. So, $4,000.00 would be definite. None the less, a very good catch. I hardly ever see any of the rare eagles or skulls for sale anymore. Those have all but dried up and now it's getting difficult for most collectors to find those. Almost every dealer knows the rare ones when they
come across one and they know that they can sell them for high prices.
I certainly do not see the rare pieces getting any easier to find, but only more difficult. Also, people are always looking for them to complete their visors that are missing insignia and this is frustrating and costly, especially to find a perfect match. It adds however, so much to the visor's value that it is worth even more to get a good set.

I remember some of the good days when you could find them for $300-$400
each, but those days are long gone.

Best, Chris

[Felix]

This thread just shows that the metal insignias are still out there to be had for decent prices and that you dont have to follow some of the "real values" posted here.

//Felix

[dskjl]

Just picked them up. I will post pics of the flag and the helmet later tonight.

Thanks to all who have commented. My son and I are rookies and we really appreciate your comments and support. A special thank you to Mike Pinkus for all he has done for us at the start of our collecting journey, well done Mike.

[dskjl]

pics, the flag is not marked that I can see.

[bwanek1]

This thread just shows that the metal insignias are still out there to be had for decent prices and that you dont have to follow some of the "real values" posted here.

//Felix

Yes, there will always be people who don't realize the value of what they have and sell it below market value. If you are lucky enough to find something somewhere for less than what items like it are routinely selling for, you are just that, lucky; it doesn't mean that the free market forces that set prices have somehow been proven wrong. I have a friend who bought a Rolex at a garage sale for $20. However, I doubt that means that the "real value" of vintage Rolexes on the open market is overinflated.

There is an old saying, "the value of a thing is what it will bring." Metal cap insignia regularly command high prices. So, that is what the market says they are worth. If something is not worth to you what the market says it is worth, just don't buy it. Look hard enough and you may find it for less...if you are lucky.

[dskjl]

Any thoughts on the flag or helmet?

[Felix]

Yes, there will always be people who don't realize the value of what they have and sell it below market value. If you are lucky enough to find something somewhere for less than what items like it are routinely selling for, you are just that, lucky; it doesn't mean that the free market forces that set prices have somehow been proven wrong. I have a friend who bought a Rolex at a garage sale for $20. However, I doubt that means that the "real value" of vintage Rolexes on the open market is overinflated.

There is an old saying, "the value of a thing is what it will bring." Metal cap insignia regularly command high prices. So, that is what the market says they are worth. If something is not worth to you what the market says it is worth, just don't buy it. Look hard enough and you may find it for less...if you are lucky.

These are the kind of arguments that made the real estate property prices shoot through the roof and partly what created one of the worst economical crises in modern times.

I can understand that guys into collecting a lot of metal insignias of course have a different opinion about what is Real value than other guys collecting different items. These guys probably pay those prices as well, and have buddies paying that also, and when they talk to each other their theories are confirmed. Or when they see that online dealer charging that price. It is confirmed.

That does however not mean that these kind of prices reflects what is the real value. To have a real value it has to be something people need and there has to be a consesus about that this is the correct price and hence what it is worth. This is far from the situation with metal ss insignias. The will to get instant gratification to have it all very fast and a lot easy cash to spend are some driving factors along with a few hard core collectors paying any price for that rare version. It has become an overheated fashion to collect SS metal insignias. A despair to get those metal skulls and eagles. They are of course very nice collectibles, please understand me correct.

But when you see the price spread for items sold and what you can find with a bit of luck and skill and knowledge and taking the sharp price climb in to the context, one starts to wonder. One can also recall quite a few threads during the last few years, and the last year in patricular, about prices for metal insignias.

I think the circle that defends these prices so hard, and pay these prices, are too narrow to call it a real value. It is still rather easy with a lot of work and knowledge to get more sensibly price wise finds than the so called "real value". I usuall shop that way. I call it smart shopping. For the lazy guys most items are available but they pay the price. Perhaps I am taking a bit of common sense and economy valid for the for the normal "Mr Smith collector" in to perspective.

One thing I have learned as well during my years of collecting is that there might be shortages of certain items that after some time pops up rather frequently. There are of course also quite a number of skulls tucked away in old collections that will in the end surface.

I know a guy who bought a house two years ago for what everyone told was the real value and that it will only increase in value. It is a good investment. Today that house is worth 70000 Euro less.

Perhaps I am lucky, or just a smart shopping guy, or the combination of both or just an out dated dinosaur that does not realise all this.

I just wanted to give a reflection about all this talking about real value for collectors items.

Cheers and happy collecting to all

Felix

[dskjl]

Not to take this post any further off topic but it seems to me that the last publicized auction price and the ebb and flow of this ever changing economy influence current values significantly. We all have heard about the some crazy high or low deal on that super rare or highly sought after trinket but I tend to take the median price and current trend into consideration when I decide to buy. I have paid crazy high and crazy low but I’m confident the law of averages, my budget restraints, and my experience will prevail and result in a well balanced reasonably priced collection. At least that’s the story I tell my wife.

Just my two cents.

Respectfully,

Dwight

[bwanek1]

Felix, you are missing the point.

There is no "real value" to these items. A cap skull is just a worthless scrap of metal in such terms. If you are looking for real value, a skull is not worth $1000...or $100...or even $1!

When you are talking about something whose worth is based entirely upon people's desire to obtain it and willingness to pay for it, the "value" at any given time is simply what the market will bear.

That is the basis of a free economy; the market sets the price. Anyone who sees what these things sell for and says, "those are not worth the price" is simply expressing that he would not pay that much himself, but he cannot state what the market value is based upon his own, personal willingness to pay. The value of such things is based upon what the market as a whole will bear. Period.

You are not willing to pay what the market has deemed these pieces to be worth. Fine. There are plenty of TR items that are of no interest to me personally and for which I would not spend one dollar. However, I am not so foolish as to say that they have no value. The same is true for other collectibles and objects of art for that matter. I am not interested in vintage Rolex watches, but my unwillingness to pay what others regularly pay for them does not mean that they are not "worth" that amount. Whether I like it or not, that is the value the market says they have.

[Felix]

Brad;

I believe you got some of my argumets above. Cheers on that I read it that way, but perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it was not so much directed towards you, but rather as a general statment, and a tip for collectors here.

You dont have to follow what are the so called "real value". Learn how to shop smart and you will be rewarded. It takes knowledge and a bit of patience and a readiness to work. Sometimes too work hard, but you will save money! These qualities are not so often used nowadays, especially among some fresh meat who wants it all very fast without any insight.

I wont go in to an argument with you as I see it rather meaningless and it will just result in a p-ssing contest. That wont benefit us.

I just wanted to high light that caution is needed. It reminds a bit about the discussion about that a real untouched SS tunic must cost this or that. Many good deals are behind the curtains and once you have built up a network with other colletors it is easier. Before one walks one needs to learn how to crawl. With some insight in t o the market, along with skills and patience, you can find a lot. It can be done because I do it sometimes. I am not the best, but I am not totally stupid either.

Some will understand what I mean and some not. We are all free to choose and collect like we want.

Cheers and thanks
Felix

P.s Sorry for going off topic...

[bwanek1]

You dont have to follow what are the so called "real value".

You keep using the term "real value" as if others are using it. They are not; only you are using that term. These things have NO real value! What we are talking about here is market value.

Market value is not a matter of opinions or desires; it is a matter of facts. It is not based upon what someone says; it is based upon what is observed. It is not based upon what prices are being asked, but what prices people are actually paying. It is not what one person is willing to pay (you or me or any individual); it is the average of actual prices paid across the market. This average is the going rate, which is the "value" set freely by the open market.

As stated, market value is an average. So, of course, some are willing to pay less and others are willing to pay more. Some will get lucky and find something for less, occasionally far less, than the market average, and some people will want something bad enough to pay above, sometimes well above, that average when they find it. The average is still the market value for the period of time during which the observations were taken.

You seem to want to declare what you, personally, are willing to pay as the value the entire market should place upon these pieces. I have observed that the market, on average, is willing to support a value above that.

[Felix]

Brad;

You do not seem to understand, or perhaps my english is too bad or my skills to explain. I just tried to give some insight and advice from my experiences in this mad collectors world.

Please colletct what you want and pay what you want!
I will do the same. We have different opinion and approach.
We wont convince each other and thats fine. Still we probably have the same goal.

Cheers and happy collecting
Felix

[brannow]

Wow! I used to own the first set pictured and the pics are from my site. If I knew they were available again I would have traded my AR15, a Smith and 1000 rounds of ammo for all the stuff.

[dskjl]

Wow! I used to own the first set pictured and the pics are from my site. If I knew they were available again I would have traded my AR15, a Smith and 1000 rounds of ammo for all the stuff.

Your PM inbox is full so I cannot reply.

Thx

[dskjl]

Helmet feedback?

Thanks