SS art, allach and artizan work

[leibregiment]

I have started to have a passing interest in SS art, allach and artisan work such as;

Allach, bread-plates, MK boxes and paintings and some very good threads on the subjects, however there does not seem to be a consensus on fakes and a like....for example bread-plates are they all period of did veterans have them made for post war sales ?
Allach; how can you tell if its a fake, can you buy of ebay and best dealers..

I would also like to see some examples in collections (the MK boxes are well covered on another thread) and other examples of art and artizan work so as to see the wide breath of items.

I shall start with a candelabra I have which may or may not be period but I am hopeful,

Many thanks

Paul

[Thorsten B.]

Hello Paul,

a lot of items for sure have been manufactured within TR period - either by SS or other party organisations as well as by good craftmen, little manufacturies and up to the big introduced manufacturies - for any kind of design outwards at buildings as well as the whole production range of inner decoration.
Since the historical and political background was to form and educate a new aryan, german human being as a whole it was of highest importance and significance of the movement - within or without the party - to take care about the inner and outward appearance of official buildings as well as the germanic look of the little settlement houses for workers, coalminers, farmers and the Volksgenosse in general.

It is impossible to state that there was only one new style being developed since the time before 1933 led to a mixture or at least some major different streams of ideas and artificial theories how to let the Drittes Reich let look like.

So we can speak about three major roots and classifications:

- the regional and pagan-related Heimatschutzstil for lonely buildings in the landscape, villages and up to what we call Provinz- or Mittelstadt (in max. about 50.000 inhabitants)

- the official buildings sometimes still related to the Heimatschutzstil up to the Führer´s, Troost´s and then Speer´s ideas and constructions for the main state and party buildings can be classified as Neu-Klassizismus - but that does not cover everything for sure

- and finally the more technocratic and practical style even related to ideas being developed by parts of the former Bauhaus in the 20ties for the Autobahn bridges (although it is again a mixture with elements of Heimatschutzstil), factories, bureaus, and some modern houses of private rich people

[leibregiment]

Thorsten, thanks great intro...my thoughts lie with "Heimatschutzstil" and local arts including places like Dachau and what was available in shops or barracks....interesting side line is in Iraq, Afghanistan and now in Haiti local retailers have/are producing military gifts....one wonders if this was done in shops lets say near barracks (I am aware that officially they were not allowed).

Lets see some examples

[Thorsten B.]

Your candleholder is in my opinion not wrought iron but cast iron - so it is not a handmade piece which is at least unusual for the SS and their interpretation and practice when it comes to the creation of such cult pieces since that´s obviously what it represents.

Therefore I assume that this candleholder must have been made in bigger numbers since otherwise the complexity of a casting mold makes no sense.

The outward appearance of it´s design looks for me as if this piece - if original, and that´s the question we want to solve - is belonging in the early period of any creation of an SS-design - the iron lamps for example made for the SS at the Kadettenanstalt Berlin-Lichterfelde for the barracks of the Leibstandarte definitely belong in the same category:

no real germanic and pagan look yet but still enormous influence of Art Déco elements such as strict geometrical outward appearance and a more static look rather than related to tradition and elements of nature.

That was the years 1933-35 and after these years the SS institutionalized itself much more efficient and was finally able - and strongly working on - to search for a style of their very own and an important figure like Diebitsch and some other artists are engaged and come more and more into official play with the re-organizing of the "Hauptamt Persönlicher Stab RF-SS" and the founding of the "Amt München" within this Hauptamt.

[Thorsten B.]

For solving the whole thing I need infos:

- how are the Sigrunes fixed in the whole thing?

- are they made of the very same material as the rest of the candleholder?

- is the flawless outward appearance just a result of the attempt to cover the tracks of having added the Sigrunes much later to the piece?

And the most important part in such cases:

- from which source did you get the piece shown above?

Do you know the real source well enough, which statements did come along with the offer, is it a source in Germany or somewhere else.

If the source is being kept as a secret - for whatever reasons - this will do no good for the piece in general.

So I am awaiting your comment regarding this matter.

[leibregiment]

You are correct it is cast (maker below) and came from Harvey Riley and perports to be from Berchestgaten in 1945, however I purchased it for the visual and not for what it could be...

I am more interested in other items which others have in there collection

[Thorsten B.]

Aha - now I get it.

[Thorsten B.]

Paul,

after looking at the piece again and again and mulling it over I come to the opinion that your piece is not an original one.
I also do not believe the story coming along with it.
That does not mean that I do not believe you but I do not believe the story you have been told.

Himmler for artistic reasons hated casted iron things - in one of his letters to Oswald Pohl discussing his future plans he had in mind regarding the holy monument Externsteine he directly stated that this atrociously looking handrail made of casted iron near the stairs for climbing onto the Externsteine has definitely to be replaced by a germanic nicely carved wooden construction designed by Sturmbannführer Weigel from the Ahnenerbe.

Therefore there is only one exception:

SS-Obergruppenführer and Reichsbauernführer Darré´s Erbhof-sign bearing a wooden gate of the typical half-timbered westphalian farmhouse with the Odalrune in the middle.
This piece has been awarded several times that it just - for practical reasons - had to be produced from cast iron. Apart from that it was meant to be nailed outside facing rain and snow and needed to be made from weatherproofed and long-lasting material.
Actually that is why especially flawless pieces are just not out there - apart from the fact that most of these signs have just been thrown in the trashcan right before your GI´s arrived.

I actually know only one trustful US-dealer who offers some beautiful examples of such wooden and wrought iron art and cult pieces and by looking at his website you will find out whether you personally like or rather not have the pieces which he offers.

Finally they are all unique - and original.

[leibregiment]

"Aha - now I get it".
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No clearly you do not I have no interested in whether you think its ok, nor did I ask for any comments...........

[tinmantis]

what?

but
Thorsten B, I'd be interested in having a look at the "trustful US-dealer's' website, if he has one. Items like this have always interested me...
regards
jon

[Thorsten B.]

Leibregiment:

Indeed you are right - I don´t get it.