Gruppenfuhrer Collar Tabs Opinions

[GD69]

Hello

Please opinions about this Gruppenfuhrer Collar Tabs.
For this Tabs are COA from Detlev.

Thanks

[Arran]

No, unfortunately the tabs and tag are bogus, and Niemann doesn't know what he's talking about...

[PMan]

Tabs

Wow....Detlev Niemann. Was he advised or did he just take a shot in the dark? Very unwise of him.

[Ian Hulley]

No, unfortunately the tabs and tag are bogus

Totally agree.

and Niemann doesn't know what he's talking about...

I'm quite sure he knows exactly what he's talking about.

Ian.

[Massimo F.]

5 digits RZM tag?! I wish I could make and show you my Aunt Mary's face when she saw I was putting salt on a salad, that would express my feeling right now about this tabs and COA ...
It's something like this ...

[CurtD]

Looks like DN got out of the business just in time. Seems like there are a flood of bogus items lately. Was he cleaning out his junk closet preparing for retirement?

[Felix]

A bad call by Detlev for sure! Insignias has never been his strong side. However this is a really bad mistake! More like the items you see at Snyders site.

Sad, because Detlev has been an asset to hobby for many years regarding medals.

//Felix

[Massimo F.]

This is a perfect example that teaches 2 very good lessons:
1) WAF is one of the best resources around because of the wide number of collectors that can provide insights from various angles.
2) We have to deeply study the subject and don't take dealer's experience as infallible in the field no matter how many COAs they can stick to an item something bogus can always slip through.
Research, study, compare ... Know what you're looking for and discuss on WAF

[CurtD]

Are we sure this is a genuine DN expertise? I mean, damn, the RZM tag is not even the right tax code ('B'). And of course, the 5 digits are not even in the correct style. I don't see how anyone that has even a beginner's knowledge could miss the tag.

[Gary Symonds]

5 digits RZM tag?! I wish I could make and show you my Aunt Mary's face when she saw I was putting salt on a salad, that would express my feeling right now about this tabs and COA ...
It's something like this ...

I would request of the membership in the SS forum to please cite, quote, prove, or provide the Historical Evidence, that the RZM MANDATED 6 digit numbers on the paper labels used from 1938 on.

I have asked for this evidence many times and I am still waiting. This is another collector myth, absent real evidence, which will NOT be forthcoming. Any volunteers, guys?

[Felix]

I would request of the membership in the SS forum to please cite, quote, prove, or provide the Historical Evidence, that the RZM MANDATED 6 digit numbers on the paper labels used from 1938 on.

I have asked for this evidence many times and I am still waiting. This is another collector myth, absent real evidence, which will NOT be forthcoming. Any volunteers, guys?

I volunteer!

Not to become even more impopular than I already am, but rather to prove what it is about. Or perhaps to highlight the subject.

When collecting SS insignias, as well as other third reich items, there is only one way of surving. To know what original items look like. The burden of proof lies with those who claim a specific item is actually an original.

In the context of that I would kindly ask anyone to post any prof or evidence that any "5" digit originial Rzm tabs existed, in the font style that has been posted, to exist as original.

In my investegations this Rzm tab is a total reproduction. From my point of view there is not even a shadow of eveidence this is an original Rzm tab. To point it out more clearly it is total crap.

Cheers, Felix

Ps. with kind regards Matrovsky, you should do a search on this forum. Many has done their home work here, and the knowledgeable members on this forum together, and those who has posted in the past are not totally left behind the bushes. See also Ulrichs books on cuff titles where he describes original Rzm tabs and what they can tell us.

[CurtD]

I would request of the membership in the SS forum to please cite, quote, prove, or provide the Historical Evidence, that the RZM MANDATED 6 digit numbers on the paper labels used from 1938 on.

I have asked for this evidence many times and I am still waiting. This is another collector myth, absent real evidence, which will NOT be forthcoming. Any volunteers, guys?

How about because no one has ever found one that was even close to being original?

Can I prove that 5 digits tags didn't exist? Can you prove that unicorns never existed?

[bwanek1]

I would request of the membership in the SS forum to please cite, quote, prove, or provide the Historical Evidence, that the RZM MANDATED 6 digit numbers on the paper labels used from 1938 on.

I can not "cite, quote, prove, or provide the Historical Evidence, that" the RZM didn't place pink bunny stickers on some cloth insignis either, but, since no such stickers have been found on original, untouched vet bring-backs, I am quite comfortable in saying that if you find such a sticker on a piece of insignia, it is not original TR period.

In addition to the absence of any provenance related to insignia bearing one of these five-digit tags, the tags themselves differ from known originals in, not only the number of digits, but also the design of the numerals. Additionally, all known original paper RZM tags I have handled were printed on a particular type of parer which has a unique semi-glossy texture, which none of the five-digit tags I have inspected had. That can't be captured in photos, but I am sure most SS cloth collectors know what I mean.

[Ian Hulley]

I have asked for this evidence many times and I am still waiting. This is another collector myth, absent real evidence, which will NOT be forthcoming. Any volunteers, guys?

None of us should just sit around 'waiting' for others to do our work for us, the overwhelming weight of original items have either none or 6 digit tags.

The 5 digit tags are from the 60's and definately the early 70's to my certain knowledge.

Ian.

[PMan]

6 digits

Yes, the RZM mandated six digits. The system was set up that way. Here is your proof. See next page.....
Peter