SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer's Collar Insignia

[Peter Wiking]

I guess we leave it at that then.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

[Chris_Werner]

And what Tony and Gary said is absolutely correct. ANY dealer can "goof-up". Nobody is perfect. But when a dealer seems to regularly peddle questionable items, I am troubled and begin to have second thoughts about that dealers credibility.
Further stating this, it is not the bad item that makes me question the dealer's honesty, it is how the dealer reacts and handles your concerns when you want to return an item that separates the good dealers from the bad in my book.

[bnz. 42]

it is the reasons why I didn’t say the seller’s name.

[Hasse.M]

Thats the right spirit!
But lets hang him if you dont get it returned... deal?

[Chris_Werner]

Maybe I'm stirring the pot too much with this idea, but I'd love to see a forum devoted especially to Dealers and our dealings with them.
We could praise honest and forthright dealers, and roast the bad ones. Rather than have accounts about dealers spread around the various threads, it would be all under one roof, so to speak.
The members would be allowed to post FACTS about transactions, post photos of the item in question, and let the rest of us know how the problem was handled.
AS for me, if I saw one problem or questionable item after another from a particular dealer, he or she would not get my business.

[Gary Wood]

Chris,
while your suggestion is would be great in a ideal world , it does have draw backs and repercussions, for example we all have different experiences and opinions on the people we deal with, I might deal with one guy OK, not a problem at all, you may also deal with the same person and have problems, so it would soon end up in a p i s s i n g match, then there is the legal side to it, although this forum is a platform would this forum be held responsible for allowing say un truth's from someone with a gripe or unproven fact's because How would you validate the fact's, and if you get someone with a gripe he could blame a certain dealer/collector for anything, maybe true maybe not, then you get second hand and third hand information passed on from collector to collector which is like a fisherman's tail, see what I mean!

Also policing something like this would be a nightmare, this would take valuable time away from the forums which is about collecting, remember no one gets paid here, and I would rather talk about my interest than is he good or bad ect ect with the time I spend here,
I must say I have bought items from dealers that are slammed for selling fakes, just because they sell fakes does not mean they do not get real items, so if in doubt ask rule no one out in the Hunt for the items you want, also a lot put emphasis on COA's sometimes these are not worth the paper they are written on, some time ago I saw a COA issued by a dealer on an item, I am keeping this vague, He said it had been inspected by Mr A and Mr B, well it turned out later neither A or B had inspected it.

This is where Forums can help, we all give our opinions freely, but remember at the end of the day its only our opinion and the final decision must be the buyers they have to live with it!

Just my thought on the matter.

cheers,
Gary

PS I think you said it right it is how the professional dealer handles the issues that counts on a return on an item.

[Robin Lumsden]

Gary.

How true.

And there's too much emphasis placed these days on the so-called 'Dealer's Expertise' type of certificates of authenticity. Only a £1 note is actually worth the paper it's written on. Yes - we still have these north of the border.

The Romans used to say 'CAVEAT EMPTOR' and nothing has changed since then.

Dealers will always be just that - dealers.

Buyers have to be two things - buyers and wary.

Regards,

Robin.

[Chris_Werner]

Gary and Robin, true words of wisdom.
The Lawyer in me also had those doubts when I proposed this idea. I guess it's just a symptom of my frustration with a collecting field where paranoia about authenticity and dealers, (unfortunately well-founded paranoia), seems to take presidence over the actual items that we collect. I did my "Brant's Rant" on the thread about Robin's books, and it need not be repeated here.
I guess that's just the environment we live in when a single officer's runic sells for $650.00. (Seller, please do not take offense. If that's what the market is bearing, then so be it.) When there is this much money involved, it will draw the fakers like moths to flame.
I do think dealers have an obligation to stand behind their material, and screen the questionable stuff out. Especially when the dealer charges a dealer premium, and has cultivated a reputation for no fakes in his inventory.
You can say that the buyer has to beware, and shouldn't be fooled or stupid with his money. But isn't that extra premium paying for the sellers expertise?
As a lawyer, I charge $150.00 per hour for my knowledge and expertise. The "buyer" is paying a premium for this knowledge. If I screw up, I am responsible, not my client. Why should this be any different for militaria dealers, especially those that charge the dealer premium? Simply, you pay extra for that comfort of knowing that the dealer's expertise has "Screened" the piece for you. If we can point out fakes of BASIC items on the internet, why should an experienced dealer get away with an "oops" on these basic items like collar tabs and cuff titles?
Just my thoughts.

[bnz. 42]

I do think dealers have an obligation to stand behind their material, and screen the questionable stuff out. Especially when the dealer charges a dealer premium, and has cultivated a reputation for no fakes in his inventory.

I can assure you, they do screen the questionable stuff out, they do know that it is a fake, and they do sell it as an original piece. Fakers!

[pegasus]

you also stated in your book thal the cuff "landstorm nederland" didden exsist

Sorry.

They're well made, but I don't like them (if my opinion's still worth anything after the Dachau saga)

With a 1938 date tag (these have been faked too, remember) they could only be Leibstandarte tabs.

IMHO, however,:-

The runes are not properly shaped;
The piping's too wide;
The black backing material is strange;
The 'pips' are not correct for an early tab;
The stitching leaves a bit to be desired;
etc.

All these 'warning signals' combined on a single pair would make me steer well clear of these.