Odd Totenkopf Button??

[Robin Lumsden]

Has anyone else come across a Totenkopf button like this before??

I have never seen another one quite like it.

It has the same style of skull which features on the well-known fake field cap buttons marked 'RZM M5/8', but is completely different in the way it is made, i.e.-

1. It is of 3-piece construction;
2. The front is in nickel;
3. The back-plate is in steel;
4. The retaining loop is in aluminium;
5. It is unmarked;
6. Quality is extremely good.

More than that, it is actually about twice as thick (front to back) as all the field cap buttons, which makes me wonder if this is a cap button at all.

It looks and feels more like a small-size tunic/epaulette button.

Could this be some sort of evening dress button, for SS-TV personnel, replacing the runes with a skull?

I just don't know what it is, and would appreciate any opinions.

(I bought it in a 'lot' of 4 buttons about 20 years ago. The other buttons were: a bog-standard Imperial Prussian tunic button; an NSBO cap button; and a field-grey swastika button by Assmann. I've never found out what the latter one is either.)

Here's the front:-

[Robin Lumsden]

And the back:-

[Robin Lumsden]

And the side. Note how thick it is when compared to the buttons for early SS field caps.

[Gary Wood]

Robin,
I have seen these before, these are fake made by a German collector, he had 3 or 4 attempts at them, first he tried to mount them to original buttons, but because they are cast it prove very un successful as you have pointed out the very thick sides,also the weight your button on the back has been finish very well compared to his others, another version is of a one piece button he did 2 types both dated one was 36 and the other 37, these had a better appearance

I bought a handful off him much later when he had given over trying to peddle them, they are made from either a lead alloy of a zinc alloy,

also this style of tk emblem is considered a fake by many
cheers,
Gary

[Gary Wood]

Here are some of the example I have, because this was a cottage industry most of his first attempts are different, he used original buttons took off the pebbled part and put his fake on top, so there is an array of them out there.
cheers,
Gary

[Gary Wood]

the back shot of the group

[Gary Wood]

illustrated below is as the cast badge before fixing to original buttons

[Gary Wood]

and an example backed on an original button marked extra fine

cheers,
Gary

[Robin Lumsden]

Gary.

Many thanks for this information.

It was the back that had me flummoxed - I'd never seen one with this type of reverse before.

I think the four buttons cost me three quid at the time, so no great loss.

All the best,

Robin.

[Gary Wood]

Robin,
I Had made a few pairs of cuff links from these buttons for friends and gave them as gift's, kept one set for myself, kind of a buzz to see the "old" boys wearing them,
cheers,
Gary

[Stossgruppe3]

Skull Button .....

Gary, the skull on the originals ..... ? dont they also look more the larger cap badge too ...... ? and not like these examples shown ..... David

[Robin Lumsden]

David.

Yes. You're right. The skulls on known original buttons (the unmarked field-grey version, the 'RZM SS 63', the 'RZM M5/69', and the 'RZM SS 1194/40') are all like exact miniatures of the peaked cap skull.

The fake ones with skulls like the one I posted are usually in brass or one-piece castings and are sometimes marked 'RZM M5/8'.

The reason I posted this one was that it had the fake-type skull, but on a type of construction I had never seen before.

Regards,

Robin.

[Robin Lumsden]

And this little grinner's even odder. Wehrwolf I think.

Who said the SS had a monopoly on skull buttons??

Cheers.

Robin.

[Gary Wood]

Robin,
I have never seen a button like this before, was it used on headgear or tunic's?
cheers,
Gary

[Robin Lumsden]

Gary.

I think it must be some sort of tunic button.
The Wehrwolf had a very distinctive style of skull, and this is it, except it's minus the usual 'W'.
So far as I've seen in the few pix available, they wore old Freikorps-type caps, Leibhusar caps or civilian 'NSKOV'-type flat caps. It depended on timescale. The Wehrwolf started from small groups in the 1920s, but increased greatly in size in the early 30s, with their own membership books, proper uniforms, etc. etc. There's not too much about them in print.
The badge below is, I think, what they wore on their 1930s 'NSKOV'-type caps - within the wreath instead of the Kyffhauser badge. It has the same fittings on the back, and is in the same metal.
Cheers.
Robin.