Silver or gold?

[wewelsburg]

Someone help me here would an Obersturmfuhrer in the LAH wear gold or silver cyphers and pips on his boards?Gold cyphers and EITHER color pips for commissioned officer correct?

[HJ12]

Generally Officers would wear gold cyphers, NCO's would wear white metal cyphers and junior NCO's and EM's would wear cloth slip-on cyphers. As for the pips, I think gold was standard for officers but I'm sure white metal ones were used by officers too.

Dave

[NickG]

GOLD OF SILVER? (pips and cyphers)

An old thread...but I would like to bring this topic back to the top for more input.

I realize that the Waffen-SS tried to follow the Heer's regulations, so golden pips and golden cyphers for officers
and
silver colored pips and silver cyphers for NCO's
but I have seen SS officers boards with silver pips (matching their silver rank tab pips).
I need to grab by Angolia book but I think there was a regulation change for the SS to follow the Heer rule.

So what about unit/branch cyphers?
Always gold color for SS officers? (textbook) and silver for NCO's ?
or were there anomalies?

[NickG]

From jack Pia's 1974 reference book...
Anybody?

[dcdefend]

Gold or Silver

There was the correct insignia - gold for officers and silver for NCO/EM. Probably gold for general officers while heer general officers seem silver.

During the last years of the war - whatever you could get your hands on.

Now - some pips pre-45 and some post in both colors. Some post easy to distinguish, some not so easy.

Shoulderboards, collar tabs and the pips & cyphers that went on them - a very broad field of collecting in itself.

John

[DonC]

Don't forget that depending on the finish on the pips, they could very well lose their color over time and now show only the base metal.

Don

[NickG]

True golden ones getting completely worn out over the years, now appearing silver is a possibility on the pips and perhaps even cyphers
but I do see Officer SS boards with clearly factory fresh silver cyphers.... and even NCO ones with gold cyphers (see image)...

I guess like what member "dcdefend" stated; they used whatever they could get their hands on...
A senior NCO being promoted to officer status added his silver cypher to a junior officer shoulder-board is a possibility...
very plausible but not sure about the other way around though?
See here (image credit goes =Hiscoll)

[NickG]

Wewelsburg, while researching this further I checked Angolia's book and this is what he wrote;
So post April 1942 silver pips (described as white metal) were regulation for SS officers as well...
but not often adhered to obviously...many following the Heer manner in violation of SS regulations!

That covers the pips! My follow up question would concern the cyphers;
like LAH, D, W, P etc..
Now based on the April 1942 regs would these now also come in matching silver (white metal) like the pips for officers (as opposed to gilt/golden) ???
That part is not answered clearly in the book... just stating cyphers for officer to be in gilt metal...

[dcdefend]

pips & cyphers

I'll bet in 1942 they weren't even manufacturing the cyphers. Late war pips were also made in non-metal versions. Glass?

Angolia's book was published in 1983, we've seen and learned a lot since then. For every Himmler uniform regulation, I'll bet there is a surviving picture showing someone violating it.

[dcdefend]

Thread Needs Some Photos

Here are some cyphers, numbers and pips. I have tried to exclude all obvious repros. The Germania, DF,LAH & GD cyphers are modern repros.

On the left side of the silver pips are 17 ones of the same styled that are grouped together. I call these the Delta International style. They came on Delta International collar tabs, but otherwise look good.

On the piece of cardboard is one that I feel is a prewar Allgemeine SS sytle compared with a Delta.

Love to hear others' thoughts on pips, cyphers and numbers.

John

[dcdefend]

Some pips

some silver & gold pips

[dcdefend]

Allgemeine SS v. Delta

A close up of what I consider an Allgemeine SS pre war collar tab pip v. a Delta International pip. Looking a pictures of collar tabs offered for sale, on various forums and in books, I think I often see the Delta style. Are they pre-45 or post? They are marked oLc in a diamond box.