transitional short-wingspan ss eagle...did they exist?

[OnnoP]

Hello,

Recently I came across a very nice reproduction ss cap eagle (made in 800 sliver as a private purchase item), that depicts an eagle similar to the 2nd pattern SS eagle (the first of course being the national party eagle 1927), but with a short wingspan similar to the 1927 eagle. RZM maker is 11/21, a maker located in Sudetenland. The Canadian making and selling these claims he has the original. Could anybody tell me if there are any other records of such an insignia? It's offered together with a danziger type skull as a private purchase allgemeine SS visor cap set, but I cannot help but wonder if it is a fantasy item. Was there ever any (underground?) SS in the Sudetenland prior to 1938? Perhaps it's a local variation? Any comments are welcome!

[John T]

See the thread on the cape eagle...is that what you are referring too?

[OnnoP]

RZM 11/21 on eagle?

Well, without visual reference it is difficult to show you what type of eagle I am talking about, but I am hoping someone can answer this very straightforward question in order to solve the mystery: could any type of original metal SS cap eagle have the markings 11/21 (without a 'M' in front of it and without any runes), together with a circular RZM logo? Because my understanding is that all early rzm marked eagles have 'M1/???" markings and all later types have the maker/date (for example 380/42), always without the 'M', but usually with runes.

According to the list of RZM codes "11/21", assuming that stands for "M11/21 Josef Rillebrand, Gablonz a. N. (Sudetenland)", is a number given to this manufacturer for the making of NSDAP long service medals, not exactly SS insignia. Or is it possible or perhaps even common to find the RZM code given to a manufacturer for making a specific type of medal or insignia on other sideproducts made by that manufacturer as well? Otherwise I don't see how anything other than a NSDAP long service award would be marked with a 11/??? rzm code.

Any comments that help clarify this subject are VERY welcome!!!

[OnnoP]

Well some investigation has clarified a great deal already! I stumbled upon an exact match to the eagle I've been trying to describe and it's being offered here:

http://www.germanwarbooty.com/metal%20i692.htm

...as a super rare cape clasp eagle! And the marking isn't 11/21, but m1/21 with the M being only barely detectable as such on the repro. But a cape clasp eagle? I'm not quite seeing this just yet...I'm assuming the eagle wouldn't have held a cape together with it's three prongs, so would this be attached to a clasp? And has anybody ever seen an example of this combination (picure of items in use or actual items) or better yet of course, has one to show?

[Winkelman]

Hello Onno , you will find pictures of one in the following thread >>

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=412573

I had already figured that it would be a confusing eagle when found detached from the clasp ..