Cufftitle SS-Pioniersturmbann

[Tom300]

Hi

Is this a real or fake ?

Regards and thanks
Tom

[Bob Hritz]

Original and very nice. I am missing this type in my collection.

Bob Hritz

[viva_giulio]

i know hritz it's a quotated collector but i've different opinion.

Could be a variant i don't know.. but the ct i saw are different.

Better embroided, letter clear, "e" different, different position of letter, different "ending" of every letter.

[Robert H]

all examples I have seen got the horizontal lower stroke from the first letter P over sewn to the vertical line of the letter P. This example looks like the stitch was split over the vertical line. In the search machine you will find other examples with this feature as shown below from one of my old titles. The one above it possible a variation I assume.

[ckkyt003]

How about the letter " i "? The dot of the letter i showed from the one in the beginning of the thread is quite lower than the example of Robert's.

[Fritz]

all examples I have seen got the horizontal lower stroke from the first letter P over sewn to the vertical line of the letter P. This example looks like the stitch was split over the vertical line. In the search machine you will find other examples with this feature as shown below from one of my old titles. The one above it possible a variation I assume.

Robert,
the flatwire variant does exist with the "P" designed such as the item that started the thread. Hence I really see no problem with such a "P" on the much more common RZM variant. Maybe it was one maker doing them like so and the next one like so. Significantely more quantities of the RZM variants must have been made compared to the numbers of flatwire variants.

Cheers

Fritz

[Fritz]

How about the letter " i "? The dot of the letter i showed from the one in the beginning of the thread is quite lower than the example of Robert's.

That is no problem IMO.

I hope the moderators do accept that link and I know it is not the same model (normal "s" variant) but still I think it can be used for comparison.

http://ssvtmilitaria.com/I-10078%20P...uff%20band.htm

Fritz

[Robert H]

Robert,
the flatwire variant does exist with the "P" designed such as the item that started the thread. Hence I really see no problem with such a "P" on the much more common RZM variant. Maybe it was one maker doing them like so and the next one like so. Significantely more quantities of the RZM variants must have been made compared to the numbers of flatwire variants.

Cheers

Fritz

I talk about the EM RZM version and not the flatwire one. And this I said above:
"the one above it possible a variation I assume".

[Fritz]

I talk about the EM RZM version and not the flatwire one. And this I said above:
"the one above it possible a variation I assume".

Robert,
I know you are talking about the EM RZM variant and all I say is that when the flatwire version was made in variants with such a different "P" then I am sure the EM RZM version was made in variants too, especialy since much larger amounts were made of the EM RZM version.


Cheers

Fritz

[C. Betz]

Cuff Title

I believe the cuff title posted for discussion is original.

Here are two RZM EM examples:
Top. From German Military Cuffbands 1784 – Present, Williamson & McGuirl, 1998, Page 174.

Second: Angolia’s Cloth Insignia of the SS, 2nd Edition, 1989, Page 155.


Charles Betz

[C. Betz]

Cuff Title #2

Second cuff title.

[Military]

the 'i' and 'p' letters are not a problem in my opinion.
it could simply be a case of a slight misalignment during machining,
as with today, a standard strip of pre-made roll would be inserted into a machine and then lettered out. could this be the case and the reason for slight deviation in alignment?

[Seiler]

the 'i' and 'p' letters are not a problem in my opinion.
it could simply be a case of a slight misalignment during machining,
as with today, a standard strip of pre-made roll would be inserted into a machine and then lettered out. could this be the case and the reason for slight deviation in alignment?

Ah,an expert on cufftitles as well as everything else!
Seiler