SS 43 feldbuse for opinions

[besslein]

Hello Dimitri, I hate do this but honestly I do not like this tunic at all. I do not like the belt straps and I have already seen that HBT lining material on fakes, in my opinion is not period. Sorry but I am not a big fan of this tunic by pictures posted.
Can you show me the button holes? This is a tunic you need to have in hands for a close inspection, do you have from the seller inspection period?
Pay attention could be made by a greatcoat, a dangerous fake in my opinion.
Good luck my friend.
Luca

im with Luca on this one,

[Winkelman]

There's nothing wrong with this tunic - apart from the state it is in .

The German rayon liner , coarse HBT collar reverse , stitching patterns & beltloops are all perfectly legit . It's not like all M43's had Italian HBT liners - I have no doubts about this one ..

[novedvory]

I m agree, I already saw a lot of sorts of rayon on the ss jackets.

[Lassi]

I see no problem with this tunic I would love to have it in my collection
Regards
Lars

[phild]

Hello Dimitri, I hate do this but honestly I do not like this tunic at all. I do not like the belt straps and I have already seen that HBT lining material on fakes, in my opinion is not period. Sorry but I am not a big fan of this tunic by pictures posted.
Can you show me the button holes? This is a tunic you need to have in hands for a close inspection, do you have from the seller inspection period?
Pay attention could be made by a greatcoat, a dangerous fake in my opinion.
Good luck my friend.
Luca

I agree. There are many small details inocrrect and some not so small.

[Winkelman]

Let me start by saying I have no personal interest in the matter ( this tunic is not mine , or of anyone I know ) .

But I would SINCERELY be interested to understand what is incorrect here ( by PM if need be ) , to learn myself .

If the problem would be in the lower pockets , they were made both with these harmonica types & with flat-attached ones ..

[herrgeezer]

First off let me say I am no M43 tunic expert. I do own a mint example that came from an impeccable source however.

When I first replied to this question from Dimitri I was looking at the wear of the wool and the liner, which in my view corresponded with each other. But, one thing that kinda kept running through my head and it was the crumpled and puffy look of the collar which looks like it's been washed recently. The tunic must have been washed many times in it's life-time because of all the fraying within the lining material, which in my opinion washing tends to advance.

Then Gerd V posted other photos and I now see that the collar has some blueish colored thread left where the collar tabs were sewn and the same color thread was used to sew a loose seam between the collar and the body of the tunic. I looked at other features a little more closely, then I examined my mint M43 against this one and did see some variation in construction. The HBT material under the collar is not the same as mine ... it's a darker material on mine. And of course the lining material is grey Italian HBT in my tunic and not on this one. Also, the size markings have only four numbers on this tunic and my tunic has five. The fifth number is a manufactures code I'm told. On my tunic it is 65.

Today looking again I see that the sleeve eagle was sewn with the same color thread as the collar. That has me wondering because I am under the impression that these tunics always had a machine sewn sleeve eagle if issued to the SS. I know there have to be examples where this is not necessarily the case, but for the most part I would think that this would hold true.

I respect the opinions of all those that have made comments and hope others will comments as well. If this is a dangerous fake as Luca suggests it's needs to be exposed. However, if this tunic is original to the period, that needs to be verified as well. I wonder if any other members that own M43 tunics have one such as this and could post it?

[willysproject]

Hi David,

Fact that this thread has been viewed over +750 times and only get this few opinions speaks for itself I think. Initially I had interest in doing a hands on examination, and buying it... but the better pics gave me other ideas. The lack of sound opinions on this thread gives away the hesitation of collectors... So, IMHO not a good investment piece... To me the materials are my concern... but... maybe I'm paranoid

My 2 cents...

Kind regards,
Gerd

I respect the opinions of all those that have made comments and hope others will comments as well. If this is a dangerous fake as Luca suggests it's needs to be exposed. However, if this tunic is original to the period, that needs to be verified as well. I wonder if any other members that own M43 tunics have one such as this and could post it?

[Lasse Kongo]

I agree. There are many small details inocrrect and some not so small.

Very true!

Lasse

[phild]

Just to be clear, a smooth rayon lining on these M-43 SS tunics is not a problem in itself. Many if not most of the Ravensbruck made M-43 tunics used a smooth Rayon. The Hbt Rayon is also very common, maybe the most common, but both types were used as were somtimes other variations and some linings used mixed combinations.

I'm not close to saying 100% that the lining in this tunic is even of the period, it looks close and may in fact be, but there is a lot reproduction lining material out there and it can be very hard to distinguish...more so in photos alone.

I agree that this tunic has been harshly washed (hot water and maybe stones added to wear it) it may have been done both before and after it was assembled. I also agree that the stampings have some differences with what I would expect as does the collar...and it's backing.

Look carefully at HOW the top shoulder seams are made. Has anyone ever seen an ISSUE/CONTRACT German tunic (Heer or SS) with those seams made in this way? If so I would love to see it.

[Johnny R]

I agree with the usual suspects, The tunic IMO is an artificially aged modern reproduction.

[Winkelman]

Well , I'm not certainly not too proud to admit that my initial reaction may indeed have been too hastily .. !

It was based on the idea that a tunic was dismissed here solely by the use of >> smooth artificial silk / rayon as a liner , the presence of drill HBT in the reverse of the collar , and the shape of the beltstraps ( loops instead of single straps ) .

An IMO thorough examination of one of my own tunics - of 100 % provenance - did prove all of THESE 3 characteristics to be present - so I had no doubt = ABOUT THAT .

I was also quite impressed by the intricate stitching patterns ( especially inside underneath the arms ) & the wear on this rayon .
The phoney sewing threads on the insignia area's I had noticed , but already dismissed as from fake insignia having been removed - however , this should have proved that the tunic had been messed with already .

I did however , as member PhilD. before pointed out to me by PM , overlook a Major Red Flag in the shoulder area . Indeed this is an important area to view .
So I did learn something very useful here , which IMO is the sheer essence of this Forum ( Thanks PhilD. .. ! )

[Winkelman]

A brief summit today with 2 of Flanders' most established collectors had to teach me that indeed by now there ARE high end repro's which are almost impossible to judge from pictures ( apart from this very shoulder-seam mistake - this time , that is ) .
A hands-on inspection will also proof suspect materials to have been used ( what if it's a built-up from ALL original materials ? ) .

So KUDOS to Luca , who was the first one not to be thrown off by the pictures , like I was - A VERY dangerous fake indeed & the best I've seen .

I sincerely did not know that reproducing tunics was up to this high level , and will offer some pics of a 100 % genuine item to make up for that ..

BUT at least this here is a clear & honest discussion in itself , with many onlookers from the sidelines , which IMHO will benefit this Forum far more than all of the personal bickering amongst members ?
I have learned a LOT aboutthis subject in only 2 days time , and surely now many others have too .

Can't believe that I wrote all of this ( writing is not my thing ) , but using the phrase " no doubt " in my initial answer really put the bug in me .. !

Here's my 100 % original comparison material on the use of that rayon , HBT collar reverse & looped beltstraps - and this one is REAL for sure :

[Winkelman]

Artificial silk liner with LOOPED support straps >

P.S. : note different proportions , as this is a SMALLER size than the tunic discussed ..

The intricate underarm sections of this original seem to have been copied in the discussed tunic very well , but nothing will amaze me from now on ..

[Winkelman]

ORIGINAL Drill HBT of reverse collar - in dark green , different from the discussed tunic - a deadly sin in itself .. ?

And it does indeed have the shoulder-seam as it should be - you were so right about that , PhilD. .. !