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**BenVK** · 12-23-2009, 06:09 PM

Sorry, it was a typo, Nick actualy said screw you Panzie!

My mistake, sorry Peter!

Don;t shoot the messenger!

**carlsson1982** · 12-23-2009, 06:11 PM

I knew there would be an explanation. Silly me.

Exactly, I know the guy that dug out that skull and other things, I even bought some things from him two years ago. The skull he found is absolutely original.
The comparision you made Peter is very intresting (for me it's obvious).
Peter is one of the few's here that actually give HIS opinion on a matter rather than "yes, it's fake, agreed,

etc" that I read here from most pseudo-collectors.
BUT like I can read this thread is going down like the previous one, that came out with no result (for some guys). So let's be nice towards each others, It's Christmas

. Altough I don't celebrate it, I wish you guys a Merry Chrystmas.

**BenVK** · 12-23-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by carlsson1982 View Post

Exactly, I know the guy that dug out that skull and other things, I even bought some things from him two years ago. The skull he found is absolutely original.
The comparision you made Peter is very intresting (for me it's obvious).
Peter is one of the few's here that actually give HIS opinion on a matter rather than "yes, it's fake, agreed,

etc" that I read here from most pseudo-collectors.
BUT like I can read this thread is going down like the previous one, that came out with no result (for some guys). So let's be nice towards each others, It's Christmas

. Altough I don't celebrate it, I wish you guys a Merry Chrystmas.

In the spirit of Christmas, why don't you send Peter all the 3 prongs skulls you found as a Xmas present?

they won't have to travel many miles so should get there for tomorrow!

**dhunter93** · 12-23-2009, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by bwanek1 View Post

These skulls are zinc, not aluminum.

As for the pins, Zimmermann made TKs with two styles of pins; one had a round, conical crimp, the other had this style of top/bottom horizontal crimp. Both styles have been heavily copied. However, in this case, I see no reason to conclude that this skull is anything but original.

As for the difference in aging on the front and back, that is actually a plus as far as I am concerned. One would expect the front to have aged more, because it was immediately exposed to the elements and corrosive environmental agents, while the back was somewhat protected for many years by the cap, until it deteriorated itself.

Lastly, I would not expect all ground dug pieces to have the same form and degree of aging. The different materials (aluminum, Cupal, and zinc) have different properties and deteriorate differently. Beyond that, even the same material will deteriorate differently and at different rates, depending on the environment. Zinc will age differently in earth of different composition, with different chemical and mineral content, and different moisture levels. Ambient temperature levels also play a big role.

All of that being said, my point is (and has always been) that the aged look of a piece is something to be largely ignored. There are techniques which have been developed by creative fakers to very closely artificially mimic decades of aging and deterioration. Therefore, it is foolish to make a determination of originality based on how convincingly old (or ground-dug) a piece appears to be. I can tell you that this Zimmermann TK is authentic based upon style, material, and construction, which are all consistent with known originals, not based upon how "old" it looks.

For the same reason, I remain unconvinced regarding the three-pronged TKs. The convincing-looking aging in those photos is not something which can't be faked. In fact, I have shown an ID disk in this thread on which nearly identical "aging" was artificially created. Therefore, I give little weight to those photos. Beyond that, we have vague stories of ground finds from sources whose reliability has never been established. I demand more than that before I will believe. Still, I remain open to the possibility and I continue to welcome more evidence and invite those making claims to offer more to back them up.

I do not think 499/41 is zinc based on the photograph, I also no longer believe it is real. I started searching past threads and this TK displays the same appearance of artifical ageing as many known fakes.

**PMan** · 12-23-2009, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by BenVK View Post

Sorry, it was a typo, Nick actualy said screw you Panzie!

My mistake, sorry Peter!

Don;t shoot the messenger!

"Panzie" last time I heard that name I was in 7th grade.

**carlsson1982** · 12-23-2009, 06:37 PM

In the spirit of Christmas, why don't you send Peter all the 3 prongs skulls you found as a Xmas present? they won't have to travel many miles so should get there for tomorrow!

I didn't recall saying that I own several one's? But of course If you don't read thread's like you should, you'll probably never know.

this TK displays the same appearance of artifical ageing as many known fakes

It displays the same general appearance of natural ageing.

**BenVK** · 12-23-2009, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post

"Panzie" last time I heard that name I was in 7th grade.

I'm not surprised, your still there!

**BenVK** · 12-23-2009, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by carlsson1982 View Post

I didn't recall having said that I own several one's?

But you own one, right? so why don't you give Peter one? We all know that you want to?

**Military** · 12-23-2009, 06:44 PM

How about this 499/41 skull? Also another ground dug i suppose?

**PMan** · 12-23-2009, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by BenVK View Post

But you own one, right? so why don't you give Peter one? We all know that you want to?

Ben,
I seem to weighing heavy on your mind this evening.

**PMan** · 12-23-2009, 06:49 PM

3 prong skull

Originally posted by BenVK View Post

But you own one, right? so why don't you give Peter one? We all know that you want to?

Ben,
I have been focusing on the rarer alluminum skulls and eagles of late.

**BenVK** · 12-23-2009, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post

Ben,
I seem to weighing heavy on your mind this evening.

Not as heavy as on carlsson1982;s.
I think he really likes you!

**IchHattEinenKameraden** · 12-23-2009, 06:50 PM

Watching this video makes me really nervous, i can not wait until the ground starts to warm up again so i can grab my metal detector and find some treasures. It has only been around six weeks since my last trip but it feels like six years.

**BenVK** · 12-23-2009, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post

Ben,
I have been focusing on the rarer alluminum skulls and eagles of late.

Have you? that's nice Peter.

**carlsson1982** · 12-23-2009, 06:56 PM

But you own one, right? so why don't you give Peter one? We all know that you want to?

You clearly need some basic education.

I ain't going to waste my time replying to your "high-level" sayings though.

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499/41 RZM skull

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