SS evening dress Broach

[maestro]

Here are pics of one that winkler had on his site about a year ago- perhaps someone can tell me if this one conforms to those from the new "hoard", or if it conforms to original examples...

i own this piece (posts 156 & 157 ).
i've asked Kai to comment further; i am waiting on his reply.
mind you, i had been told by him when i purchased this piece that:

" This clasp is 100 % original and in this case it is easy to tell because only one maker and typ exist.  
This is exactly this one and the best is their exist no fakes. 
People like Weitze, Burmeister, Hirtz, Verbruggen, Jenkins, Stiles, etc.has seen this clasp and agreed also 100 %. 
So their is absolutly no doubt about it.
Best regards
Kai Winkler"

~Darius

[Thorsten B.]

I highly doubt that all the named individuals indeed - as mentioned by Winkler - agree to that statement.

So maybe Bob Hritz, Martin Stiles or Pieter Verbruggen might would like to comment on this scenario - that will be much appreciated, I guess.

I think with this published comment of Winkler the s*it hits the fan as they say.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Except that these new ones are probably fakes...still does bring the price down on originals too, unfortunately...

Actually no, that is not how collecting works. It may drive up prices. What Art Forgery ever brought down the price of an original?

After only a few hours of study anyone can see the differences. It's really easy.

It was a matter of time til the fakers zeroed in on the Tux Badge, it's just to lucrative to not reproduce.

I like the Fakers attempts, makes the Hobby fun. If the stuff was not desirable and valuable nobody would be faking it and that would suck!

[Richard P]

I think with this published comment of Winkler the s*it hits the fan as they say.

Everybody duck!

Richard

[John Pic]

Thats how it usually works though... take some to a show..let some well knowns look at them...of coarse the well knowns do not like to upset a dealer friend at a back patting meet so they take a quick look and not being 100% familiar with the real ones and not having one handy to compair, bless them because after all they are well made and there you have it..the name toss begins.

[kammo man]

Funny thing is this ,
I do a lot of mountain biking and am always getting custom bits for my down hill mountain bike , these small bits and pieces are usually milled by small firm using lazer milling ..................
The cutter goes back and forth cutting the lightweight metal ......but always leaves tiny lines ....just like the BACK of these !!!
Only thing my stuff is Purple , blue and red in color , this this new copy should be Cadmum clad right ?
seems to me to be a new copy , plain and simple done on a modern cutter , Lazer Milled .
I dont even collect this stuff but I will tell you what I do know how the metal business works and I know the Twisters did not have robots making this stuff ......
that is unless they escaped to the dark side of the moon and the new fakes are from a movie about to come out about Nazi Space men.
owen

[Hohenstaufen]

John Pic, Bingo! " What do we have for him Johnny? " " a free box of newly made, I mean found, tuxedo badges!"


Doc is right. I seriously doubt if the prices will go down at all on the originals in well known collections. In fact, they may go up after all of this is over.

[kammo man]

Booom !!!!!!!!!

[Dr. Strangelove]

Bad boy!

"Where is the bad boy that made these fake badges and stained the reputation of my beloved SS?"

[kammo man]

its all in the eye of the beholder .............

if you are into lazer haircuts...........

[tgn]

If "Weitze, Burmeister, Hirtz, Verbruggen, Jenkins, Stiles, etc." all blessed these and they turn out to be fake, we have a serious problem in this hobby.

[John Pic]

Why ? This kind of "blessing" has always gone on...especially at shows...one quick look at something a "friend" or someone who you want to be on the good side of has and it becomes too easy to say "oh yeah that sure looks good to me" especially with something that really needs intense scrutiny in details as this. This problem has always existed . I hate to bring up the Panzer Tunic again but it was the same thing..a friend has it and he has a story to go with it so it must be good..a quick glance and a blessing from friends while others neutral to the owners scrutinized it a bit more.

This is a problem the Hobby has always had..we talk "look at the item not the story" but we really take too much into consideration who owns or is selling an item and what the story is. Look at S&L KCs how many years did it take before we really looked into these and determined what was pre and post war?

This goes back to the censorship thread..if more people had the courage to scrutinize items from even those they like and buy from when fakes emerge the problems might be solved....they have no customer if nobody puts up with it..but if a few tolerate it just to have an in road to rare and desirable things the problem will always exist.

[Richard P]

I know of at least two people shown the newly offered and discovered badges at the SOS...that actually own, or owned several in one case, and they spotted them right away.

If money is returned...I hope the equally valuable reverse blessing is given.

Richard

[wolfslair]

If "Weitze, Burmeister, Hirtz, Verbruggen, Jenkins, Stiles, etc." all blessed these and they turn out to be fake, we have a serious problem in this hobby.

Not all the guys named above are squeeky clean - all make mistakes, some more than most. I don't believe that every one of these guys "blessed" these items.
I smell bulls**t

[tgn]

I don't believe that every one of these guys "blessed" these items.
I smell bulls**t

I don't think so either, which was my not too well expressed point.

I hope one of the buyers of these will post photos so we can all decide what's what.