Coat of Arms Question?

[brannow]

Hi All,

This might be a little off topic but is there a site were you can see the coat of arms for famous WWII Germans? My buddy's friend has a set of silverware his dad brought home from WWII and there is a coat of arms on them.

Thanks in advance,

Bill Rannow
Mpls, MN

Here is the Coat of Arms


Here is the monogram

[kapitein]

german coat of arms

Tough one but its an alliance coat of arms meaning that one is of the man and the other of the wife. You have initials you can search on and I think its a nobel coat of arms as there is a 'v' meaning von. (always Nobel)
Its a bit of work but on http://www.wappenbuch.de you have hundreds of Nobel german coat of arms you can look into. Also check the Austrian section.
Go to 'wappen' and weiter / >> to see the hundreds of drawings. Maybe you can find it!
Succes
kapitein

[Mr.Jerry D]

I think the style of crown designates a level of title as well; duke, barron, etc...

[J C Gray]

I think the style of crown designates a level of title as well; duke, barron, etc...

Correct...in this case the coronet signifies 'Graf' (count). This is the old style of coronet for this rank..it was later changed to a less decorative, 9 pointed version known as a 'Grafenkrone'. I'm not sure when it was changed, but the newer version was definetly in place by The time of the Third Reich.

Kapitein is also correct with regards to the Allianzwappen. The male arms are always to the (Heraldic) right ie. from the wearers point of view (left as you look at it).

The different textures engraved into the various charges and fields are also indicative of particular tinctures (colours) with the dotted pattern representing Or (gold/gelb). The vertical, linear pattern should represent Gules (red/rot), the horizontal, linear engraving should represent Azure (blue/blau) and the plain field of the fess (horizontal partition) on which the lyon is charged would be Argent (silver/silber). That leaves us with the colour of the lyon which is the same colour as the field ie. Silver, which is impossible...neither can it be Gold. It could be possible that when the tincture of a lyon is not blazoned or indicated that it automatically represents a certain colour, but I'm not sure.
Anyway, I hope this has been of interest as I am trying to give you a mental picture of what the arms would look like in colour, for your research.

[Michael Fay]

variant meanings

A problem I have found is that German heraldic symbols do not completely adhere to a set standard of meanings throughout all of Germany as opposed to England, etc who followed a strict guideline . Some symbols mean different things in another geographic area.

[revi]

Well, interesting enough the left shield with the lion is the same as the provincial sign of the province of Zeeland in the Netherlands.
It is a lion that's rising from the water, "Luctor et emergo": "I figth and rise" or "I fight and surface", I don't know what translation would be the most proper in this case. It is symbolic for the everlasting fight of the zeelanders against the sea.
Actually the symbolic value of this sign was related to the battle against the Spanish in the "80 years war".
The lion is usually facing the left, but as the position of the direction was looked at from the position of the knight ( behind the shield ) it is seen as a lion facing to the right ( heraldic right ). As most knights wore the shield on the left side of the body the lion was therefor also facing forward.
An exception was made for "bastard" ofspring, t.i. not legaly heirs, who were allowed to use the lion as their sign, but with the lion facing the right ( heraldic left ).
I haven't found the right shield of the sign but who knows. The initials should give a clue, v. E.F. probably is a double sir name.

Cheers,

Seth.

[revi]

I haven't found the right shield of the sign in the Dutch heraldic register but who knows. Examples of the left coat of arms are also found in the German Heraldic registers, I haven't found the value as to the lion in the field in these cases. I will attache an example. Maybe the combination of the two coats of arms will give a clue.

[J C Gray]

Seth,
It is most certainly not a 'lion that's rising from the water'...it is a 'Lion Demi Rampant Contourne' ie. an upright lion which has been cut in half horizontally by a straight line and which is facing to the sinister (heraldic left). The fact that the lion is facing the opposite way from normal does not necessarily rmean anything in particular, other than to distinguish it from a similar arms of a different bearer and does not represent 'Bastard'...illegitemacy is denoted by a 'Baston Sable' ie. a black curved line running diagonally from Dexter to sinister.

Michael,
If you are referring to the ordinaries and charges having different meanings, this is because (in personal heraldry) these type of symbols can basically mean anything that the bearer wants them to mean eg. a pun on a name or to symbolise a great deed in the past. Civic Heraldry is different in such as the charges placed on a shield usually represent certain things such as geographical location (eg. Hills, Water etc.) or a particular trade which has been instrumental in the development of the town,city or state (eg. A ship for shipbuilding or a sword for steel production). Civic Heraldry can also convey a famous historical act or legend associated with that particular location. The Crown on the arms here in question, however, will represent a 'Count' or equivalent rank in whatever country it is blazoned and all other marks of cadency symbols of rank are universal throughout Europe.
As a footnote, I would advise extreme caution when researching heraldry online , especially through many of the "Get your Family Crest" type internet sites, as the vast majority of these are making megabucks by appealling to gullibility and romantic sentimentalism for the 'Old Country'. The fact that most of these sites call a 'coat of arms' a 'Crest' in the first place should be warning enough that they don't have a clue and also the fact that they calim to be able to research and trace your own family's arms is another big red flag...Coats of arms belong to Individuals, not families.

[revi]

Hallo JC,

Thanks for the clear notes, I was refering to the Dutch heraldry regarding the side the "beast" is viewing, as practically all lions there are facing left. The same goes for the "bastard" or left view ofcourse, not a general rule but in use in the Netherlands, I think I maybe haven't made that clear enough, sorry. The way the lower part is designed reminded me of the early shield which represented drops, but they could as well be stars etc.

I was merely trying to explain that the coat of arms isn't necessarily German so finding back whatever the original owner and place of origin is will be hard as there are also many "makeshift(?)" signs as you already noted. I think the best chance will be to look at the older signs like you will find them at http://www.wappenbuch.de, like a forummember already mentioned, huge collection .....

JC,

Could the combination of the two coats of arms mean the joining of two "nobel" descendants?

best of luck ,

Seth.