SS Officer Converted M43 Tunic

[PMan]

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Sorry, here is the picture.

[judas]

Sorry, here is the picture.

what has this one got to do with the tunic at hand has it come from the same person ?? at some point

[PMan]

what has this one got to do with the tunic at hand has it come from the same person ?? at some point

This tunic was posted and briefly discussed in this thread. I have no idea where it came from or where it is now.
See John Pic post #95.

[Bobwirtz]

Judas,

No, this was a tunic that John Pic brought up... not sure why. However, I was correct in my memory that it was at one time an SS tunic if "Obfhr" is any indication. It was restored one rank lower, SS-Untersturmfuhrer, as good original insignia in matching condition is pretty difficult to round up and acquire. As long as when it is sold, the owner states that it is a restored piece I have no problem with it. If it had been an Army officer and somebody put the SS insignia on it, then I think that is cheating... that's not historically restoring something but changing the item to something it never was.

Bob

[judas]

Judas,

No, this was a tunic that John Pic brought up... not sure why. However, I was correct in my memory that it was at one time an SS tunic if "Obfhr" is any indication. It was restored one rank lower, SS-Untersturmfuhrer, as good original insignia in matching condition is pretty difficult to round up and acquire. As long as when it is sold, the owner states that it is a restored piece I have no problem with it. If it had been an Army officer and somebody put the SS insignia on it, then I think that is cheating... that's not historically restoring something but changing the item to something it never was.

Bob

thanks ! clears that up. some one showed a tunic here some time back that did not fit the mold , he had the last when he showed a photo of the guy wearing it i think its in norway . nick has pointed out most thinks > i my self have a none tex ss tunic .i would put up any time of the day here for the wolfs and go in and bat for it blow buy blow . at the end of it the owner of this tunic in this topic brought to light what we all know about forums .

was he setting it up for a sale only he knows and the rest of us can only speculate .
may be some should put up some none text tunics be it any branch. should be a grand show .. what can go wrong seems every one puts down the real ones when showin

[NickG]

nick has pointed out most things > i my self have a none text ss tunic .

Here's another non text book SS tunic! Note collar tabs! Enlisted M36 tunic (no French cuffs either)
with added Major's rank shoulder boards and pips added to enlisted pattern tab!
Just a cool picture I think, as he's a Ritterkreuztrager. You would think he would wear a smarter tunic!
He also removed the cap cord from his visor for that combat look!

[John Pic]

I spent years discussing uniform anomilies that occurred during the period with photos and all look up the posts on the different forums ....its not news to anyone..no one is shocked to see SS officers in oddball tunics it was quite common ...but finding them untouched today is not....the fact that people have to make them up speaks truth to that.

Whatever you say a scam is a scam....put your tunic together and enjoy it but using it to stir controversy that makes room for people to try and dupe others is never gonna sit right with me.

[Ian Hulley]

Here's another non text book SS tunic! Note collar tabs! Enlisted M36 tunic (no French cuffs either)
with added Major's rank shoulder boards and pips added to enlisted pattern tab!
Just a cool picture I think, as he's a Ritterkreuztrager. You would think he would wear a smarter tunic!
He also removed the cap cord from his visor for that combat look!

He's also wearing a British 'Sam Browne' belt as well but what's that got to do with the faked up tunic that started this fiasco ?

Ian.

[Rich Moran]

I am still thinking about the response to my question.

Some of it I understand. Some I do not nor do I really care to because what happened here falls so far out of the realm of finding items unmessed with.

One thing is for certain, some members don't like their time wasted with stuff like this and I can't really blame them. They were trying to help while being in a way, sillyally (is that a word?) duped. Hats off to those who imediately recognized the assembled pices for what it is by the way, so no, they were not duped, which means it was silly to begin with.

MMurray, you know the cost of tunics these days, and prior to my posting my question to you, and by the way, thank you for the answer, many collectors make this as serious at it is for them, because they are pure collectors.

That means nothing is messed with and only accept what they know won't burn them later when they try to move something from their collection.

If there is one thing I have learned over the years, if your worth millions, so what you piss away 20 grand on something that is not right, no big thing.

That being said there are few here that can afford to do that, thus the seriousness behind all of it.

With that the thread is like a politically incorrect joke....not to be taken seriously, but has managed to PO some folks.

Those pockets really are strange looking and any tunic that looks like that in my opinion should be used to start a fire with.

[judas]

[QUOTE=Ian Hulley;3645505]He's also wearing a British 'Sam Browne' belt as well but what's that got to do with the faked up tunic that started this fiasco ?

Ian.[/QUOTE what it has to do with is its shown what this and other forums have become ! . were some one can show a untouched tunic and it will be knocked down and some one will put up a bit of junk but every one will spend 5 pages later going over it to get a fix on there self import-ins , this topic has shown its true colors ..

[Basil]

If it was "put together" or "restored" (whatever you want to call it or phrase it),
with the purpose of re-selling as an untouched original its deceiving and bad for the hobby, but who will fall for that? and what if it was indeed SS used at one time? you can't prove either way...

If its a recreation done because its represents something that could have been worn (as abundant photographic proof has shown mixed parts) and the owner likes the TK theme, why not? I see no harm in doing it ...

Some people just over-analyse stuff...its a hobby...something to have fun with.

Until someone pays out a lot of money for something which they cannot then sell to other collectors because it's a put-together. At that point, it ceases to be fun.

If the OP had come on here and said 'look at this tunic I've restored', I doubt it would have caused much angst but he actually came out with a dishonest story and I'm struggling to see how he could have had an honest motive for doing so.

My immediate thought on seeing the tunic was 'why bother putting an officer's collar on such a crappy tunic'. With those odd pockets, it wouldn't have looked very 'Echt' even when new.

[John Pic]

Judas...every forum has people who feel they are " self important" because members of that forum consistantly send them emails and PMs asking for opinions on items. Instead of posting them here and getting many opinions they choose a single person they've never even met and are too lazy to do proper research.

Thus we have an group which includes this "self important" person..who offer opinons...its up to the person asking to decide if those opinions are good or not. You post something you get opinions. Or maybe no one should bother and just let the clowns play games like this??? You want your cake and to eat it too as the saying goes.

I'll be sure never to offer opinions on aything you post and hopefully no one else you accuse of self importance will either then you can figure it out on your own.

and if this tunic didnt pass the "test" then guess what....maybe those people really do know something.


On another not has anyone looked up who "Obrfhr Rugel" may have been ?

[NickG]

He's also wearing a British 'Sam Browne' belt as well but what's that got to do with the faked up tunic that started this fiasco ?

Ian.

Just wanted to illustrate for those that might not be "in the know" that enlisted tabs were occasionally used officers combat tunics. Basically sharing knowledge. Thats all. The last thing I want is somebody to find a similar tunic and immediately razor-blade off the enlisted pattern tabs because this particular tunic was critisized...That's all.

I agree that the owner of the tunic tried to pull a fast one but the crowd here is way too seasoned to fall for that...and restoring a Heer tunic with non heer insignia is indeed not restoring, its "making up something"... and the truth was revealed.

When this thread started the piece was immediately deemed a put together, this obviously because of the Heer pattern tunic and Heer insignia and non SS rank insignia. Because of the green pointed collar it did make it a good candidate for what it turned into,
a TK officer. (the paint on the canvas) but its not a genuine Picasso and never will be... Plenty of people have fake Picassos and still enjoy them on their wall... I would enjoy owning this tunic "as is" because it looks neat, a salty combat look well worn with well worn insignia...so in my view tastefully put together... (as long as its presented like that!!!) . Beats a 100% repro with Paki insignia!

All I wanted to do is illustrate that anamolies like this did indeed exist by providing period images, so have an OPEN MIND when such pieces surface. There could very well be a chance its real...not automatically garbage!! There is hope a good one could surface out of a musty dufflebag one day with a hodge podge of insignia, which would make it in my book "extra special" (not boring text book "best dress" uniform!), but a solid pedigree is the magic word! Here it was not the case unfortunately...

[mmurray306]

Moderator,

Please end this thread and remove me from Wehrmacht Awards. I tried to make a point but did it poorly. Missed my mark. Apologize to forum members who I may of hurt. Many of you have vast knowledge of the subject and it is quite impressive. All I ask is keep an open mind. It was a big war. Thanks for your input. Take care forum members. Happy Holidays.

[DKNYC71]

Moderator,

Please end this thread and remove me from Wehrmacht Awards. I tried to make a point but did it poorly. Missed my mark. Apologize to forum members who I may of hurt. Many of you have vast knowledge of the subject and it is quite impressive. All I ask is keep an open mind. It was a big war. Thanks for your input. Take care forum members. Happy Holidays.

Hi Gary,

Please honor this fellow's request, the sooner the better!

Happy Holidays!