Black backed Italian SS eagle?

[afrikasandman]

Guys never seen one of these on black backing and its a little different than what im used to seeing for Italian Sleeve eagles. Is this a legit one? Thought it may make for an interesting discussion. Matt

[afrikasandman]

back

[Dennis S]

Matt , IMO a reproduction copied from an original red eagle done in the early 1980's . I saw a shopping bag full of these at a show. The the dealer was from NJ and so was the sh!tbird that gave him the original to copy. I have never been able to find a black original in this style although they certainly existed.
The two eagles in Angola's books are fakes both red and black. The fakes are actually better executed than the originals from a quality standpoint.


Since I don't have one that I believe is original . Lets compare yours to mine. Mine did not come directly from the shopping bag, but I believe it is from the same source at some point.
Lets check the comparison between the black one you are showing and the black fake I am. The red one is original.

[Military]

For the cloth pieces as above, did they come with RZM tags?
or No, since they were foreign legions?

Just a bit off tangent - these italian SS eagles also came in metal - were they also reproduced in great numbers?

[Dennis S]

For the cloth pieces as above, did they come with RZM tags?
or No, since they were foreign legions?

Just a bit off tangent - these italian SS eagles also came in metal - were they also reproduced in great numbers?

Negative never RZM. They were either Dachau made pieces or Italian manufactured .

Yes , They were made in Metal(zamac) by Lorioli Firm of Italy. The only firm that has come to light at this time.

Yes metal hat eagle are reproduced . I wouldn't call it in tremendous numbers, but usualy cast with a solid back and bogus 800 or other markings. There were some hollow backs cast in the 70's that were reasonable facsimiles, but of inferior metals. They had round prongs, but you could see the stubs where the flat prongs were broken off when they made the mold.

[afrikasandman]

Dennis,

I thought it was bad, lacks a few of the details that I like in the usual Italian birds. Its not mine I just ran across it. Plus the dealer is asking $95, which just throws up redflags in my mind. Original Italian birds are a bit of a struggle to find at times. Would like to get one eventually but SS isn't really my thing, just dig the design of the bird. Thanks for your comment Dennis, you knowledge on Italian militaria is exceptional and I was hoping you would post. Matt

[Dennis S]

Glad I could help.

[Military]

Dennis, thanks for the input.
Yeah - the Lorioli Firm produced the famous Lorioli SS skulls as well.

thanks again.

[Rene Chavez]

Matt , IMO a reproduction copied from an original red eagle done in the early 1980's . I saw a shopping bag full of these at a show. The the dealer was from NJ and so was the sh!tbird that gave him the original to copy. I have never been able to find a black original in this style although they certainly existed.
The two eagles in Angola's books are fakes both red and black. The fakes are actually better executed than the originals from a quality standpoint.


Since I don't have one that I believe is original . Lets compare yours to mine. Mine did not come directly from the shopping bag, but I believe it is from the same source at some point.
Lets check the comparison between the black one you are showing and the black fake I am. The red one is original.

As you indicated Dennis these eagles are very well made I’m in the opinion that they are <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on">Dachau</st1:City> type insignia and not totally convinced that they are reproductions. These eagles have been around for a long time and I remember seeing vet bring backs with these type eagles in the mix with the other Italian SS insignia, which we are very familiar with. Also many well known reputable dealers have sold these types of eagles, which does not mean that they are original. Hannah's Reich just sold one not sure for how much anyway just my opinion! http://www.hannahsreich.co.uk/shop/shop.php

Rene Chavez
http://axis101.bizland.com

[Dennis S]

I am not giving the Hannahs Reich eagle the thumbs up because I never handle a black one "of that style" that I am sure was legit. I do notice some differences in Hannah's eagle and the first one shown. Unless its just the photography.
I am not saying the black eagles should be spitting images of the known red originals, but the black one shown that started this thread is in my opinion one of the shopping bag eagles(which were done in both colors) by a NJ dealer. The points I like about Hannahs eagle are some differences in the bottom feather fletching and if I am seeing the color on the back correctly it has a bit of a bluish tinge. I have seen this blue tinge on the backs original red eagles.

But who knows as in other SS items could be a repro of a repro.

Rene , what do you think of the tab he is selling with the eagle. It strikes me odd
as far as the buckrum and lack of red in the lictor is concerned. If its supposed to be a Dachau tab.

I digress, as far as these black eagles are concerned in the style we are discussing I would be hard pressed to believe in it without some rock solid pedigree.

My comments are all pertaining to the specific style eagle that started this thread


Here is Hannahs eagle I wish the photo was clearer because I see some detail deifference. Head, neck, fletching, fascio. I do not believe Hannahs eagle came from the shopping bag. I wish there was a good clear shot of one of these black eagles in wear

[Dennis S]

Here is the eagle that started the thread

[tgn]

Matt , IMO a reproduction copied from an original red eagle done in the early 1980's . I saw a shopping bag full of these at a show. The the dealer was from NJ and so was the sh!tbird that gave him the original to copy. I have never been able to find a black original in this style although they certainly existed.

Dennis, what was the name of this dealer from NJ?

Tom

[Dennis S]

I am looking at the comparison with Hannahs eagle and the good known red ones
and I am seeing a lot of similarities.

[Military]

Dennis, could you post photos of (good) eagles with red backing? thanks.

[Dennis S]

Dennis, could you post photos of (good) eagles with red backing? thanks.

Post #3 The bottom red eagle is 100%