skull question

[PMan]

3-pronged Assmann (late war type) I know this one is controversial here but not for me, I found one grounddug two years ago myself. Unfortunately It was just it's half.

The other 3 prong version in this post seems ground dug as well. I always believed in these myself.
Peter

[ton g]

skull question

hey guys,

thanks for the pics and answers! The silverwashed zinc skulls were new to me. But i was wondering: normally the germans manufactured high- or good quality stuff. In my opinion the plain zinc skull doesn't look that smart on a visor or cap...... On wich headgear were they mostly worn?? was it combined with a plain zinc eagle or are there original caps with a nice shiny silver eagle and a grey zinc skull? (or otherwise zinc eagle and silver skull)
I can't find any of those combinations on period foto's.

[carlsson1982]

the Assmann skull waw mostly worn with with an Assmann eagle:
assmann eagles:
a)155/36
b)155/38
c)155/42 ---> is not hard to find
d)unmarked
3-pronged (late war)
e) M1/17

[bwanek1]

the Assmann skull waw mostly worn with with an Assmann eagle:
assmann eagles:
a)155/36
b)155/38
c)155/42 ---> is not hard to find
d)unmarked
3-pronged (late war)
e) M1/17

I do not believe that there is much evidence that anyone during the TR cared who made individual pieces of insignia or matched them by maker on caps. Skulls and eagles, regardles of maker, were paired together on caps. I would actually consider it more common for eagles and skulls by different makers to be worn together, than for them to match.

[carlsson1982]

Most SS visors have a Assmann skull with a Assmann eagles.

[PMan]

Eagles and Skulls

I do not believe that there is much evidence that anyone during the TR cared who made individual pieces of insignia or matched them by maker on caps. Skulls and eagles, regardles of maker, were paired together on caps. I would actually consider it more common for eagles and skulls by different makers to be worn together, than for them to match.

Brad,
I would say that hat manufactures bought stock quantities of the eagles and skulls and continued to re-order the same ones when needed. I have 3 August Mueller allgemeine officer visors purchased at different times. These have the same eagle and skull combos. I know the skulls are 1/52's and the eagles are either 52's or 394's. I would need to check. At any rate, they are consistent.
Peter

[bwanek1]

Brad,
I would say that hat manufactures bought stock quantities of the eagles and skulls and continued to re-order the same ones when needed. I have 3 August Mueller allgemeine officer visors purchased at different times. These have the same eagle and skull combos. I know the skulls are 1/52's and the eagles are either 52's or 394's. I would need to check. At any rate, they are consistent.
Peter

Yes, Peter, I would agree that larger manufacturers would buy in bulk from suppliers and continue to reorder from the same sources. However, there would be no reason for a manufacturer to care whether the eagles and skulls they procured were from the same maker, other than for logistical simplicity and reasons of economy, so long as they were of comperable quality, material, and finish.

Assmann made plenty of both eagles and skulls, but other makers' production was not so. Deschler, for instance, made many skulls, but relatively few eagles. All of those extra skulls had to be paired with eagles by other manufacturers. Likewise, Hicke made plenty of eagles, but no skulls at all of which we are aware. Particularly later in wartime, while production was less consistent and materials often in short supply, cap makers, tailors, and retailers would have used what they could get from whichever sources had what they needed.

As for the reason Assmann eagles and skulls may be found together in greater numbers than other makers (if that is, in fact, correct), it would more likely be, in my opinion, merely a factor of their abundance relative to other makers in later years, than any interest in mating eagles and skulls by the same maker.

[Ian Hulley]

I think this is another example of collectors noticing now what at the time was a complete irrelevance.

Ian

[ton g]

quotes:

'I would actually consider it more common for eagles and skulls by different makers to be worn together, than for them to match".

"I do not believe that there is much evidence that anyone during the TR cared who made individual pieces of insignia or matched them by maker on caps. Skulls and eagles, regardles of maker, were paired together on caps. I would actually consider it more common for eagles and skulls by different makers to be worn together, than for them to match".

I believe both are right, but why is there no period foto of a cap/visor with two different insignas?? (plain zinc in combination with silver-toned)

[Arran]

I believe that every attempt would have been made to apply skulls with matching finishes, regardless of the respective makers. I would be very surprised to see mixed finishes on newly applied insignia...

[bwanek1]

I believe both are right, but why is there no period foto of a cap/visor with two different insignas?? (plain zinc in combination with silver-toned)

I have seen what I consider to be untouched original caps with all sorts of insignia combinations. Genarally, though the makers were often different, the caps usually at least had insignia made of the same material with the same type of finish, though there are certainly exceptions there too.

As for finish, regulations indicate that the bright silver wash/paint was inteded for A-SS, while bare aluminum and matte silver/grey paint was intended for W-SS. However, there too, there are plenty of examples where this was not strictly followed.

I am not aware of any original zinc insignia, which were produced unfinished.

[ton g]

skull

Thanks for your enlightment guys, I think that settle's it! I have my answers, that's what this forum is for!

greetings