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**Lenny W** · 10-31-2009, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Richard P View Post

Felix,

Is that the only criteria for judging boards good or bad now? I'm not being argumentative at all, I sincerely want to know for my own benefit. I'm not in the least bit upset, I truly want to know right from wrong on buttonholes and such. I have usually gone by construction and piping.

Richard

i dont like them either Richard see pic of button hole from a US jacket same as your boards ?

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us jacket button hole.jpg (234.0 KB, 131 views)

**Richard P** · 10-31-2009, 10:15 PM

Hi Lenny,

I have seen that type on many American garments, and even some Indian made uniforms...and I have also seen them on German uniforms judged as original by others. I have always thought there was widespread use of Singer sewing machines and attachments by both the German and American clothing industry, especially on the cottage level?

I have seen the type that is acceptable as German TR era on many Janke uniform items. I don't think it would be that hard to find the right button hole attachment or machine for the German types if that was a huge red flag for the fakers. I remember past posts on button holes types but would definitely have to take a refresher course on them. They are not my strong suit.

Thanks...I don't want them around if fakes...but also don't want to toss them if made by some obscure German Granny with the wrong machine.

Richard

**Richard P** · 10-31-2009, 11:13 PM

I just went on a buttonhole search. I'm not sure if I came out any smarter or more confused.

If I read this chart right, and the commentary...the type on the board in question is a cut before, flybar type buttonhole. The other type is a cut before bartack that we call a key hole and is the standard for most TR board applications.

According to what I read the cut before flybar is acceptable on TR items, as well as the simple loop type used by many tailors on private made boards. Please tell me if i read this stuff wrong.

CHART

Attached Files

attachment-7.jpg (80.4 KB, 123 views)

**Lenny W** · 11-01-2009, 10:04 AM

i dont know if this will help us any but here goes some info from an old thread

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=328796

**madandi** · 11-01-2009, 11:32 AM

the buttonhole is not the only problem.
IMO the paspel is fake also. I have compard it to my other Rayon-piped-boards and there is a difference.

**Richard P** · 11-01-2009, 05:03 PM

I agree that it is not like most rayon I have seen, but it is a manufactured piping in the same exact shape ( round with a tail of material for stitching on) as normal rayon piping. I have seen some unusual original piping from vet sources. I have also looked at many, many fake piping materials, and most are material made to look like piping, but they are not. Is there anyone who has a comprehensive photo file of known fake piping?

I have purchased many a fake knowing they are fake just so I can examine them and compare. I got these boards in a trade with a long time panzer collector, but do not know their origin. I have no problem with them being bad, if so...if they are from a source anyone knows, please post it. Thanks,

Richard

**Felix** · 11-01-2009, 05:15 PM

Richard;

On shoulder straps it pretty much follows what is said in this link;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/unif...s/Enlisted.htm

To have the bartack style key button holes is what you normally encounter on original straps. My guess is that they correspond for about 90% of the total. One some straps you can also find the slit style. That is also fine.

Improoper keyholes has been a good indicator for fake straps for many years. It is however not a totally safe method because it is not a problem to make very good key style button holes today.

Cheers,
Felix

P.s. Good that key button holes are discussed. Perhaps some new knowledge will come forward.

**Richard P** · 11-01-2009, 11:19 PM

Hi Felix,

Thanks for taking your time and explaining further. I did go and look at the pinned shoulder board thread, and that helped add a little more confusion. The piping looks to be the same type in photo #13 posted by Scott Pritchett. A friend sent me some photos of pink piped boards that have the correct buttonholes, but also bear this same piping.

I must also say it is NOT the type of rayon piping you normally encounter which has an almost slick surface to it. I am wondering if it is possible a woven cotton variety? Here is the piping in question along with two other examples ( Scott's #13) of boards considered original. They appear to be the same to me.

Richard

Attached Files

pinkpiping.jpeg (74.0 KB, 66 views)

**madandi** · 11-02-2009, 03:34 AM

Here are boards with the same piping:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=387213
I have set them back, so i have no further fotos.

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