Original SS Mein kampf wedding casket ???

[der-hase-fee]

I very well understand your concerns!

Nobody appreciates your German attitude. Why can you not keep it under control ? Don't mind, another German trait.

[Thorsten B.]

OK - then the Irish attitude:


"The Lord tells me he can get me out of this mess.

But he´s pretty sure - you are f***ed!"

(Source: Braveheart - Battle scene at Stirling)

[Matthäus Klein]

...pure speculation

Say what you want - if you guys have serious issues to find out via their test that some of the boxes you aquired for quite some money are fakes I can fairly understand.

All you do is helping to let the fakers get away with it - and even to continue their ruthless business.

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I already said right in the beginning (when I first presented this age determination test for wooden items) that there is a lack of about ten years.

Now when they find out that an "SS MK casket" was faked in about 2000, 1990, 1980, 1970 or 1960 - what does that really matter?

A fake is a fake.

do me a favor, don't give Germans a bad image on WAF.
stick to what you know. enough speculation. you've offered several questionable pieces of tapestry that as it turns out may have been from the 60's or 70's. why not get those tested for authenticity. if you held one of these boxes in your hand you'll know right off the bat if its fake or legit.. from the construction, to the texture, to the work that's gone into it.. lot harder than a machine made piece of tapestry.

[Thorsten B.]

No destraction needed - stick to the topic here: wooden items

Thank you for your opinion - it´s highly appreciated!



Regarding the possibility of testing tapestries here is the latest E-mail (08.04.11) from Dr. Martin Matthaeus which is his reaction and answer to my initial question if his institute in Lindau/Bodensee and Milano is able to do age determination tests via his published and practiced scientific age determination method.

I attached a picture of the Beiderwand piece which I also already shared in the Cultural thread - the green example with tree of life motif and seven suspension loops.
------------------------------------------

"Sehr geehrter Herr B.,

Leider das Museo d‘ Arte e Scienza und seine beide Laboratoriums, sind Ihnen nicht behilflich in diesem Fall!
Das genaue Einschätzen des Alters eines Täppisches ist wesentlich schwerer als das Datieren von Möbeln oder Gemälden.
Die einzige sichere Methode bestünde in der wissenschaftlichen Untersuchung der Wolle mit dem C14 Verfahren (aber diese Methode funktioniert nicht für Teppische die in dem Zeitraum von etwa 1650 bis 1950 gewebt wurden.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Martin Matthaes"

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His german language is not perfect since he speaks more Italian language rather than german language - but in short he says that it is far more complicated (if possible at all) to determine the age of tapestries (or woolen stuff in general to some degree).
He even states that the C14 method he mentions does not work for those ones being made between 1650 and 1950.

I assume that regarding producing wool something serious must have changed from around 1950 on - but as far as I am aware of for manufacturing these specific Jaquard tapestries really nothing changed at all.


Anyway: this thread is about the caskets and he told me on the phone again that it is NO PROBLEM to detect their age.

Their method works fine for paintings and wooden objects - but unfortenately not for wool stuff such as tapestries.

[Michael Fay]

The testing doesn't prove what is really needed for these boxes!.

I had someone check about this just this morning. One of the worlds best frame makers, restoration firms in the world is right in NYC. They heard and actually used this service once. Their opinion is - they have a long way to go-.


Even on their own site a conclusion of a expert says there are still problems with their testing:


"And yet the wrong dating results pose the question of where the weaknesses of IR spectroscopy still lie:

• <LI style="LINE-HEIGHT: 170%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 7.2pt; BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black" class=MsoNormal>Is there a partial lack of comparative data? <LI style="LINE-HEIGHT: 170%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 7.2pt; BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black" class=MsoNormal>Does the method work only for specific wood types? <LI style="LINE-HEIGHT: 170%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 7.2pt; BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black" class=MsoNormal>Are the taking and analysis of samples susceptible to error? <LI style="LINE-HEIGHT: 170%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 7.2pt; BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black" class=MsoNormal>Do climatic factors or storage conditions play a role?
• Or are some scientists right in maintaining that the method itself cannot be validly applied to age-dating, and that the hits scored are rather to be attributed to chance?

* To cut quickly to the end,,,there is no way they can tell a wood box made in 1940 from one made in 1960...


.

Hello Gaspare,
thank you for taking the time to find this out and post it here,
as it is exactly as I expected: That the test is seriously flawed to the point of being absurdly worthless is no surprise when considering the source.

[Michael Fay]

Surely Thorsten B. must be (silent) co-owner. Would make sense, wouldn't it ?

You may actually be right.
Thorsten, are you getting a fee for your advertising of this site?

I think you are.

[Thorsten B.]

[maestro]

...here's my baby!

..no need for getting this baby's DNA!

[Matthäus Klein]

nice one Maestro..
let me know if you ever get tired of it.. i can give it a nice, warm and dry home!

[Capt. R]

Pour some of this on your wooden objects to determine authenticity. Only $500 a bottle.

[maestro]

...this works pretty good!

i got a bottle of this for $20!!
works great for zinc pest! also, makes anything shiny & awesome looking

http://www.oldwestsnakeoil.com/

[Gaspare]

Mike F. , The test is actually useless for the box,,I mean unless someone used totally different wood from a year ago and or a completely different finish technique..
Useing old pew wood [which I heard they did] or the copies from the 60s/70s / 90s and the test is useless..

[Michael Fay]

Mike F. , The test is actually useless for the box,,I mean unless someone used totally different wood from a year ago and or a completely different finish technique..
Useing old pew wood [which I heard they did] or the copies from the 60s/70s / 90s and the test is useless..

thanks again Gaspare.
After so much advertising of that test with no vetting of it, this is a breath of fresh air to have you come out and state some plain facts.

I think it is about time to stop wasting WAF bandwidth on this foolish test.

[maestro]

..too bad its not as simple as just holding a black light to it like you can with a piece of tapestry.

[Thorsten B.]

You offer a great show, guys - it´s really worth watching!