Question about SS Piped Panzer Wraps

[Allectus]

Hello, I am trying to do research on whether Copper Brown or Golden Yellow piped SS Panzer Wraps existed or still might exist in someone's collection. I have heard that Copper Brown was the piping for Motorized Recon until about 1943 and then it may have possibly changed to yellow...? What I am trying to find out is, were there any wraps that were piped in either color around the collar and collar tabs or perhaps around just the tabs? Thank you all for the help, I really appreciate it

Brett

[Bobwirtz]

The date for the change for waffenfarben and rank structure was in April, effective June, 1942. Copper Brown disappeared. Golden-yellow was extended to motorized reconnaissance, as well as continuing for cavalry. Personally I've never seen Waffen-SS black panzer jackets being piped in any color other than pink. Army black panzer jackets have been seen piped in red (artillery), golden-yellow (Panzer-aufklarungs), lemon-yellow (panzer signals), pink of course, and black and white twist (panzer pioneer). But these are rare and were only used in the very early part of the war before being discontinued. The pink piping on Waffen-SS black panzer jackets didn't last long either. Thereafter only the officers had aluminum piping around the collars. As far as collar tab branch piping, I've only seen pink and they are rare and short-lived too.

Bob

[Fritz]

The date for the change for waffenfarben and rank structure was in April, effective June, 1942.

That is something which is not exactly clear, when you look at Tychsens tunic it is likely that golden yellow was introduced earlier than what you suggested.

However, I also only have seen pink piped ones, these were also worn later in the war especially in certain units where it was apparently a sign of tradition.

Cheers

Fritz

[Allectus]

Hey everyone thanks for all the help! I have been collecting quite a few images of guys wearing piped panzer wraps, all of them enlisted, and many of them show very light piping in the pics. I do have some that are very dark that I am only guessing could be red or perhaps pink. The light colored ones almost appear to be white in the pictures and match the runes but im sure this is probably only due to the B & W nature of the pic. I would post these images but since I do not actually own them, its probably against forum rules for me to do that. Perhaps I could send them privately if it would help. I have never seen an original jacket with any color other than pink as well but I was hoping perhaps someone may have something they could share with us!

Brett

[JohnS]

Piping

WSS branch color piping on tabs and on collars certainly existed.

Period photos seem to indicate that some very early ones might have been "factory piped" but the majority seem to have been "after-market" additions.

Also it would appear that SS wrap collar and tab piping seems to have been more of a 1944 thing (military fashion) than an early war thing (as it was in the Army)

JS

[Volkbert]

White piping

There were also army wraps with white piping. These were for fuhrerbegleitbataillion. Kai Winkler had one for sale several years ago.

[TonyS]

This is about as close as I've seen to SS men wearing yellow piped wraps

[Allectus]

JohnS - I agree with you that early in the war it seems like they were manufactured this way. Whether or not these were the Heer pattern that the SS were issued early in the war or if they were actual SS ones though is beyond me. I would be very surprised if SS guys though did not take advantage of doing something like this on custom/dress uniform pieces that they would have had made up.

TonyS - Wow that is an excellent image thanks for sharing that!! So now we have a color pic of officers doing that, I wonder if there are other color photo's showing enlisted guys with them? Like I mentioned earlier, I have saved a batch of pics showing enlisted guys with very light colored piping in B & W photos but it would be nice if there was a sure fire way to narrow down exactly what color(s) they could be.

Has anyone ever seen an original floating around by any chance? Thanks everyone for all the help, its a fascinating topic I think.

Brett

[TonyS]

You can post any photos you like - US copyright law allows limited "fair use" of copyrighted material for educational purposes, discussion, critique etc. Most photos on the web are not going to be copyrighted and if someone thinks they have the copyright just add in a credit. It's not like you are making money from it.

If you were trying to sell someone's copyrighted photos that's a different matter. I found a website recently offering prints for sale of one of my SS poster photos - it came down pretty fast once I warned them about legal action.

[Allectus]

Thanks TonyS, ok here are a few....I hope the owners will not mind...I have others I can post as well if it might help...

[David T]

Allectus, the first SS panzer wraps were piped in golden yellow. The SS units that wore the black "sonder bekleidung"(?) were Armoured recon.Armoured recon traditional wore golden yellow as they were considered "mounted" personnel and descendents of the cavalry units. Same for the SS as it was for the Heer. The "copper brown" piping was worn concurrently by "motorized" recon. The motorized recon troops didnt wear the black uniforms for armoured personnel. A great book to reference for the use of waffenfarbe is "German Uniforms and Insignia 33-45" (or something along those lines...I cant check as I am not home right now) by Brian L. Davis. The SS uniform reference books are ok....but are not as concise on the subject of waffenfarbe.