Help with collarpatches

[Jørn Schmidt]

I'm trying to help a friend idendify these collarpatches,he's knows that these are repros,but would like to know if they existed,and where they has been used,or if they are pure fantasy.
Thanks for looking
Cheers
J.S

[John Pic]

Can we see the backside please. Darn interesting for "repros"

[Jørn Schmidt]

Here you go,backsite

[Richard P]

Quite a waste of resources for fakes. They look strange enough to be believable..as what I don't know...but I'm willing to learn.

[relicstashr]

The curved trifos is for the commander of the Dutch SS. All the references and pics i have show it worn on both collars. It is possible that seperate unit commanders wore it with a rank tab but I cannot find any pics with this tresse setup. They all follow the normal Allgemeine tabs. I agree that the construction of these seems a lot of work for a fake and they do exhibit some characteristics of Dutch manufacture. Most of the fakes I have seen over the years have a kind of spearhead look to the tips because that is the way they are drawn in the Mollo book. Pics of originals do not have this. Personally if I saw them for the right price I would probably take the chance. I have seen some really convincing repros of the ET Security Services tabs. Mike

[NickG]

The rank pips look bad...but the 3 legged "Trifos" was indeed used by the Dutch Germaansche SS leadership... Who knows?

[N.C. Wyeth]

They all follow the normal Allgemeine tabs.

I currently have a pair of ASS Officer tabs on the E-Stand similar in shape to these, and I have heard a comment to the effect of "these look a bit longer than customary" . . . but then again, that was from a commentator who professes to say "I do not collect SS militaria". . . He feels compelled to express his concerns about the tabs I posted on the E-Stand, but then pre-qualifies his comment by mentioning that he does not pursue interest in collecting elements of the aforementioned genre . . . how is one to perceive such a comment?

These tabs you have posted seem very similar in length (and possibly construction) to mine I have advertised on the E-Stand - do you feel confident that the length of these specific tabs correspond with what you are confident to be "acceptable" by those that collect SS militaria - specifically those that collect ASS militaria?

Thanks in advance for your reply . . .

[Arran]

The litzen looks original, and quite a generous amount has been used, which is something I rarely see on fakes...

[N.C. Wyeth]

The litzen looks original, and quite a generous amount has been used, which is something I rarely see on fakes...

That is a good point to consider . . . there is enough litzen on that tab to fabricate as many as two other repros - if the rank tab were a repro, why would the fabricator waste so much good litzen on it?

[NickG]

The litzen looks original, and quite a generous amount has been used, which is something I rarely see on fakes...

You mean the collar tab rank "tresse" (=braiding)?
How many feet (or meters) do you need?

http://www.epicmilitaria.co.uk/secti...raids--ribbons

Be careful to state that the tab is possibly good because of the generous braiding applied...(which I do agree is weird for a faker to do in this fashion) but its readily available (repro tresse) for reenactors...
and I still don't like the pips. Its a weird set for sure!

[relicstashr]

N.C. I find nothing wrong with the length of your ASS tabs. Early tabs are often this long rectangular length. The correspond to SA tabs which makes perfect sense since they were a part of the SA at the time of collar tab inception. Also tabs were not always laying around premade with the numbers. You went into a tailor shop and had a bulk blank tab emboidered and piped in what you needed. Also do not forget that officers bought their own whereas em nco were issued and probably contracted from a single source. If you search thru photos you will find this shape on many tabs when part of the SA and for awhile after they split up. Everything on your set of tabs conforms to early SS tabs-the embroidery style-the piping and the length. They were probably bulk tabs for either Berlin-Brandenburg or Niedersachsen tailor embroidered for an ASS officer.

Now on the tabs in this thread the length is a point of question. On all of the pics that I can find of the commander tabs the are more of a square parrallogram than a rectanquler one. I also do not care much for the pips. the ones with the fold over pins usually but not always turn out to be early post war. A good shot of the pips from the side showing the curvature of the pip should clear this up. As for the rank braid on the tab. I find it strange but not totally unbelievable. Some questions are- 1 are there any other tabs in the Dutch armed or political forces that have this configuration 2 could a faker have confused the pattern with the Shutzmannschaft tabs and thought all foreign tabs were braided the same 3 although there is plenty of photographed evidence of the Dutch SS I find not one photo of a rank tab set up this way 4 the poster believes them to be repros what leads him to this? All in all they are still very interesting Mike

[Arran]

Yes Nick- the typical fake tresse is readily available by the meter, but I don't think this tresse is repro...

[relicstashr]

neither do I

[NickG]

Yes Nick- the typical fake tresse is readily available by the meter, but I don't think this tresse is repro...

Perhaps not...hard to tell really
Here's the repro tresse....

I agree it remains an intriguing foreign tab set because of the anomalies...

[Winkelman]

Commander ( " Voorman " ) Feldmeijer was UNIQUE in the Dutch SS to wear this type of pointed Trifos .

ALL other ranks followed ( and used ! ) the standard German Allgemeine collar tabs , which were becoming redundant in the fatherland . So e.g. the picture shown below is not Standarte Julius Schreck , but simply " our " Standaard 1 - obsolete German uniforms were shipped to Holland for support of the Dutch SS .

However , Voorman Feldmeijer has only worn his Trifos in PAIRS from day 1 , and - more significantly - all of his insignia ( I have seen 1 of them ) were embroidered on black VELVET ... ! !

I have no explanation whatsoever for the set shown , but IMHO I would therefor not seek it in the Dutch SS . I will follow the outcome with great interest ..