Originally posted by Capt. R
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The Black Order has more detail.
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In his book, Don is quoted as having wrote "This design (of the plate) was used for the front cover of the February 1943 SS monthly publication ....." and so on.
Does this mean that after the ring was made, the plate was made, and then the magazine came out? If so, we can only speculate that the plate was made sometime between September 1936 to February 1943. nothing extraordinary but just my observation.Comment
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I would 'speculate' that the plate was made after February, 1943.Originally posted by Military View Post
Long after.
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Korrekt!Comment
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And the marriage plate with the little salt pot onby is certainly one that has been in use by Himmler himself - it is pictured as well (and long before the Mollow book...Hehe!) in the official SS-Kalender from 1939.
So we know that at least from this year on this type has been in use (otherwise it would have been already published in an earlier SS-Kalender) until the very end which is very well documented as well.
I assume that still not too many of this type have been presented to SS-weddings and that each Abschnitt down to the bottom of local SS-Stürme and Scharen had their individual regional designed types combined sometimes with traditional shape and different type of wood being used.
For example I own a carved wedding plate which bears in the middle the tree of life as a big sun-flower with wings to both sides and to the left the woman and to the right the man combined with the Ingrune and a variation of the Lebensrune.
Among the couple (they wear peasant dresses (Trachten) the typical cultural pieces for their work as being a man and farmer, the plow, and for the woman, a spinning-wheel, are carved as well into the wood.
It is an extraordinary work and speaks it´s own language - on the back it bears a Binderune (two letters - his name - combined into one runic symbol) of the carver - a more luxurious wedding plate if so to speak but definitely not overdone and very well composed in it´s design.Comment
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Originally posted by JoeW View PostWhatever stylized is supposed to mean, the depiction by Kloecker was correct for only four of the five runic designs of an original TK ring. The last runic design opposite the TK shows two sig runes instead of a Gibor bi-rune next to the tyr bi-rune. Look closely at the drawing and compare to an original ring.Originally posted by Capt. R View Post
Whether this was or was not intentional on the part of Kloecker is not known. Stephen Cook, co-author of the book on Wewelsburg wrote an interesting article on this subject in the August 2003 issue of Military Trader. In that article he points out this error and how many misinterpretations of the meaning of the runes have been made based on this Leitheft. Cook goes on to provide evidence that the actual rune combination on the ring is in fact the runic signature of Weisthor.Comment
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Very interesting Joe regarding the Weisthor runic connection on the ring. That's the first time I've heard that.Originally posted by JoeW View PostComment
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The Weisthor sigil is well referenced in several books.Originally posted by ErichS View PostComment
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The signature, Robin - not the sigil.Comment
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Stylized means an artistic liberty; not depicting something as it actually is, but according to the artist's personal interpretation.Originally posted by JoeW View PostComment
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Perhaps Robin meant to write Siegel (signet/seal) which it could be said to be at the same time as Weisthor's runic signature.Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post
Thank you for the explanation CaptR. I understand the stylized rendition now, but would the artist have taken personal liberties with the actual runic configuration? I would doubt it. But he did for reasons we will never know.
Cook accessed the references that Robin speaks of in preparing his short article.Comment
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Thanks JoeW for pointing this out as I had not noticed it and do find it interesting. Have you the actual article that you could possibly post to this thread so we may all read it? This info is rare to find and I am surprised to hear of its inclusion in the Military Trader. I did not think it would appeal to certain audiences. BTW, does anyone have any info on Kloecker? I enjoy his Leitheft covers and would like to learn more about him.Originally posted by JoeW View PostComment
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Joe,
maybe there is a misinterpretation of my comment:
- the Siegel of Wiliguth has been published already some times as Robin pointed out.
- whereas his signature is not the same as his Siegel, family symbol, sigil or however one wants to call it
To make it clear again: Wiliguth´s personal Siegel and his personal signature (he wrote his personal name in runic letters in letters to Himmler for example) are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT things!
So please don´t mix this up.
His runic signature can be found for example in the copied letter to Himmler in which he refers to ten points he developed how to create or refound an "Urglaube" again - this can be find in the exhibition at Wewelsburg Castle as a copy on one wall in the former SS-Wachgebäude in front of the bridge leading into the Castle.
Stuart Russell was far more intelligent and successful in his personal studies than the actual scientists who develope a new exhibition at Wewelsburg Castle which will be opened on the 15th of April 2010 by the Bundespräsident Horst Köhler.Comment
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I was thinking that perhaps Robin was thinking the signature within the Kreis on the ring looked like a Siegel. But of course it is not his Housemark used on his tomb stone at Arolsen. But of course he might have intended to write just what he did. As the Housemark is written about too.Comment
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Sorry for any confusion................what I meant to highlight was that the rune group in the circle on the TK ring was derived from Weisthor's own personal mark. They are not two separate sig-runes as shown on the Leitheft, as Joe correctly pointed out.
Here's a nice picture of the man himself, with his own TK ring.Comment
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