Interesting

[sszza2]

Hey Craig.
Why was your MAX hearing canceled ? Did you really threaten to sue Johnson + Whitman ? I think everybody would like to hear your take on it.

Brian

An interesting question for the Wittmann/Johnson team. Unfortunately you stand as much chance of getting a straight answer from them as you do getting an honest answer from the filthy poster child for dishonesty at the core of this discussuion.

[Vid]

K,

I would like to buy one as I understand the second one is free as long as I send "cashola" ("CAKE" in sutterlin German) in an envelope to cover only additional "postage and handling". First I understand I have to e-mail you the day prior to my sending the "cashola" telling you the "documents" are on the way. Why, I remember all this like it was last year...in fact...it WAS!

Plus, another vendor offers the same terms but only one item, so you now get my business.

You are "MAX certified", aren't you? I sure don't want to get caught without any recourse if your knives turn out to be questionable.

Mark,

I am not a club or banner guy and do not require cash as my wine bills are quite insignificant compared to others who like to live high on the hog and I can see where writing off 4 figure wine bills for one dinner might might catch some attention, so I am experimenting with standard Napa Valley wines that taste quite good and no need for me to impress anyone. "Cashola" is of no interest to me really.

So if you are not happy with your Ginsu's or Billy Mays presentation? Ill take it back but it will cost you 20%. Time is money right? and you are really just a collector, so why should I honor anything. You seem to be under the impression that you can apply basic business principle to this hobby and expect honor or integrity. You silly man!.

So let me be straight with you, if you buy these? your on your own because I do not care if you are happy, I care if you can prove they are bad. And with the program in place that will take you two years anyway. So that is more than enough time to park your money in some other corporation and generate income off you, and in reality you cannot win anyway because the deck is stacked.

Mark?

I hate to say this, but your just a little collector and I just have no time to cater to you. I have books to write to establish myself, and discrediting others takes a lot of time. So step aside as I have to write a check for my wine and cheese bill.

[Vid]

Mark,

One other thing? If you were a real client and spending real money?. I would fly your arse to France, then we could hop on a plane to Cuba and get those real good cigars. But your not, you complained about how you were treated and that is not acceptable.

THE FISH STINKS FROM THE HEAD DOWN. I heard this in 1997 and I totally understand it. People need to walk away, let those silicon valley idiots buy these items, but these guys have lost total site of collectors, they just do not matter and the money is strong. And it is cash. It is a very expensive cigar.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Haven't we had enough of this conversation? Several people are on the verge of sanctions. Please think before you post. I would like to move on from this topic.

[Ian Hulley]

Haven't we had enough of this conversation? Several people are on the verge of sanctions. Please think before you post. I would like to move on from this topic.

You may do well to let this run, or you'll risk being branded 'one of them'. BE the forum that had the balls to allow open discussion. The issue isn't going away .... the facts are still there and the wounds still raw.

Ian.

[Dr. Strangelove]

And

And it does not help when Gottlieb comes blowing in and throws Gas on the Fire.

[Thorsten B.]

Sebastian,

what is indeed the goal of your recent input?

Tell us more about the process in the backward that let you write this.

A good forum can give lessons to the collector as well as to the dealer.

And especially for this case: Pride goes before a fall.

[kammo man]

Interesting has become boring .

We all know CG has his issues so ignore him .
His partners seem to have done this reciently .

Has anyone here even bought from him ?
If no then why bother wasting time on this witch hunt .

The Max guys are what they are so let it slide like water of a ducks back .


owen
kammoman

[Don D.]

Just trying to reconcile these two things:

http://www.mbertram.de/online/MBertr...p?artikel=5064

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/in...nce+of+Casting

So are they originals or reproductions?

[Craig Gottlieb]

Those are reproductions that are investment cast from an original. In my opinion, the original I examined, although I looked at it only very briefly at the show. The ring I saw exhibits greater detail than the reproductions, which I have seen in hand, plus the engraving is much better on the examined specimen. The photos provided in my article are poor, and make the ring out to be very crude, but it looks much better under magnification and in person. It could certainly be one of the first investment copy castings in this series, but it's interesting that I have seen this line across the runes on other original rings also. The subject warrants further study. The known copies of this ring do not have the correct eye-socket assembly that the originals do, which is interesting.

[Don D.]

According to DB this ring with this name is an old (50s) repro. I hear there were at least two of them at the MAX this year.

[Craig Gottlieb]

I'm not sure about the 1950s - almost none of us were collecting then, and most of us weren't alive Don Boyle and myself included (well, he may have been born in the late 1950s, but I'm not sure on that either). But the 1950s reproduction market notwithstanding, I am pretty sure I did see two of them also, so I can pretty much confirm this. The one I posted on my article was the best of the two. Of interest, the 1933 ring that was at the show was indeed an original in my view. But that's a topic for another day. When and if I am able to buy the 1933, I'll do an article on it.

[kingtiger]

COA's? Still waiting Mr. Craig.

I think it is generally accepted that Don Boyle and Andy (militarynut) are the ones that one would desire a written paper regarding the authenticity of an SS Honor Ring.

I have reviewed some past transactions with you and I find I am missing (although repeatedly requested from you in writing) COA's on an SS German helmet and an Iron Cross document from Gille to one of his troops with promised translation.

Ethical conduct and good customer follow up is all I have requested, with no result on either to date. Just because you say someone asked you to write your opinion means only that. It, by itself, would do little except to give that guy what he asked for. I have asked for that and I can post those e-mails here if you would like me to share that with this forum to prove my point. No other issue is being raised here, just missing COA's. Nothing more.

I already bought these items from you and they were supposed to COME with a COA at delivery. You should take care of past business before new. I would think that would be reasonable to expect from a dealer of your experience. Am I wrong in this?

[Don D.]

Original text from Craig's site: "Recently, I had the opportunity to examine an original ring at MAX 2009. The owner wished me to write an evaluation of the piece. Of interest to me on this ring was a horizontal line that extended across the surface of the runes in the double-rune panel, on the back side of the ring. I first thought this line was a scratch. However, upon further examination under magnification, I determined that the line was in fact a casting seam. I have observed this line on one other ring, in exactly the same place. In all probability, the line was formed at the juncture between the two halves of the casting mold, and were never cleaned off when the ring was hand finished. This line is not to be confused with the horizontal line that appears below the runes. This line is present on most rings (including this ring) and is merely a feature of the original mold. It appears in most original rings produced during the 1940s.

This ring is yet another example that provides physical proof that rings were investment cast, and not die-struck. The presence of this line can only be explained within the rubrik of the cast, and not die-struck as many collectors previously thought prior to the publication of my book."

Current/revised text from Craig's site: Recently, I had the opportunity to examine what is most likely an original ring, at MAX 2009 (though I examined it only briefly). The owner wished me to write an evaluation of the piece. Of interest to me on this ring was a horizontal line that extended across the surface of the runes in the double-rune panel, on the back side of the ring. I first thought this line was a scratch. However, upon further examination under magnification, I determined that the line was in fact a casting seam. I have observed this line on one other ring, in exactly the same place. In all probability, the line was formed at the juncture between the two halves of the casting mold, and were never cleaned off when the ring was hand finished. This line is not to be confused with the horizontal line that appears below the runes. This line is present on most rings (including this ring) and is merely a feature of the original mold. It appears in most original rings produced during the 1940s.

This ring is yet another example that provides physical evidence that rings were investment cast, and not die-struck. The presence of this line can only be explained within the rubrik of the cast, and not die-struck as many collectors previously thought prior to the publication of my book. It should be noted that there exist obvious copies of what I believe may be this ring. Similar projects have been executed using other original rings, throughout history, with mixed results. Please note that this article, like the other articles in this series, is a work in progress, and I will update readers as more information becomes available.


What's up with the waffle Craig? Is it real or not? How can you paper a ring as "maybe good?"

[busterz111]

The Reproduction Market Has been running strong since 1945...They were sold cheaply and Most items were made just to satisfy the growing Interest espicially in the 50's.

I am sure rings were made by the original makers for the Occupation forces and Espicially for members of the SS who may have Lost their Rings to Various reaons.SS men were and Always were Proud of their Allegiance.