Unusual cuff insignia

[ten]

Hi,

I have an old photo of my grandfather's wedding showing him in full [pre1939] Obersturmbahnfuhrer [SS] party kit. He started out as a ship's radio officer, spoke 7 languages and was, I believe, more part of their internal workings than a fighting officer.

Oddly, some papers we've uncovered show he was captured around the end of the war around Belgium and was interned, briefly, as a POW there... but the papers show he passed himself off as a 'grenadier'.

On the uniform in the photo [my mother wont allow me to borrow it for scanning purposes] on his cuff there is a typical black and silver lined band similar to other units but on it are marked 'M3'. I have never seen these anywhere, or heard of them referred to.

It was said [in the family] he was part of Hitler's Leibstandart. Obviously I'm a little sensitive about this, but could anyone throw any light on it?

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

[ten]

I've already posted this in another area.

I don't know how long its going to be hosted for as photobucket has restrictions on swastikas etc.

The photo is signed & dated on the back 1935, so it's quite an early one.




***********Photo re-added By Gary Wood*********

[viva_giulio]

I've already posted this in another area.

I don't know how long its going to be hosted for as photobucket has restrictions on swastikas etc.

The photo is signed & dated on the back 1935, so it's quite an early one.

yout grandfather... is PEIPER!!!!!!!!! very similar

[ten]

Hmmmm, who was PEIPER?

Incidentally, my French wife's father's side were Italian, and her grandfather fought with the SS, but died & was lost on the eastern front.

[Arran]

I believe your Grandfather was a staffer in the 4th Motor Sturm, Hamburg. His collar patch would have had the same designation (M4). Does this fit in with your family history?

[ten]

Apologies, photo is actually dated 1934, so it's even earlier.

[ten]

I believe your Grandfather was a staffer in the 4th Motor Sturm, Hamburg. His collar patch would have had the same designation (M4). Does this fit in with your family history?

No it doesn't I'm afraid, and the collar patch doesn't show an M4 designation from what I can see in this photo although the cuff band quite clearly shows an M3 designation.

I was told he was part of the Leibstandarte SS 1

During the war years he spent the majority of his time in Berlin, but was also in Koln. My mother was born the year after this photo was taken and remembers their apartment in Berlin, she also recalls his uniform and leather great-coat. From this, and knowing he had valuable multi-lingual skills, I imagine he must have worked within the Ministry. I find your comments he was a 'staffer' in some Motor Division quite derisory tbh and wouldn't have thought a man of his intellect would've been wasted in some driving position. I also doubt the 4th Motor Sturm even existed in 1934, but what do I know.

[Bobwirtz]

Arran,

This is what happens when you go out of your way and try to help somebody... you get called 'derisory'.

Bob

[ten]

Very helpful, Robert.

Thanks for your input. Do you see an M4 designation anywhere?

[Hundestaffel]

Arran,

This is what happens when you go out of your way and try to help somebody... you get called 'derisory'.

Bob

Bob and Arran:

Join the fun in the Soldbuch / Wehrpass "playground" here on the WAF for some utterly klassic reactions in regards to those who try to assist / help others.....'derisory' is actually regarded as a compliment in the Soldbuch / Wehrpass section !!!

"Hundestaffel"

[ten]

I don't know why you're being so touchy. I can't make out any 'M' insignia on the collar, you must be viewing a different photograph... of course I'm going to defend my grandfather from belittling remarks which point to a poster who didn't even bother reading the opening post and who, clearly, has some kind of eyesight problem. Admit it, this one has you foxed... you've never seen anything like it that dates from this v.early period. Neither have I, which is why I've come onbaord to ask the experts.

... at least by offering this up, which I was retissent in doing in the first place, has in some way expanded the WA data base.

[ETN]

He may have been transfered into the Leibstandarte sometime after that photo was taken, as he is not wearing a Leinstandarte cufftitle.

The cufftitle he is wearing does appear be a motorsturm title and also, there is a sleeve diamond above the title which could be a motor transport badge.

However, the photo is not clear enough to make an absolute determination.

It is possible he was on the staff of a Motorsturm when he started his career and moved up from there. Even the best and brightest have to start somewhere.

[Mr.Jerry D]

I agree with ETN, t is possible he got into the LAH division later, once the war got on. But for me that is certainly a Drivers Sleeve Diamond on his sleeve.

Drivers were not thought of that badly then, it was a skill, and knowing the working of an automobile was something prized back then.

[ten]

That is at least helpful ETA... do you have a link to any other similar cuff titles so a comparison can be made?

[ten]

I agree with ETN, t is possible he got into the LAH division later, once the war got on. But for me that is certainly a Drivers Sleeve Diamond on his sleeve.

Drivers were not thought of that badly then, it was a skill, and knowing the working of an automobile was something prized back then.

lol

...from ship's radio officer with 7 languages to a driver is a downward spiral in anyone's book.