SD or Sipo tunic??

[marco wol]

Hello collectors,

I have here a salty tunic of wich I believe has a chance of beïng SD or Sipo. Some alterations have been made to the tunic over time. A bottle green collar has been added and the buttons of the front closure have been placed to the other side.
The skirt pockets go inward. It has a stamp "Po 1944". There are remnants of thread from elongated tabs under the collar.
On the back the belt support buttons are gone.
The cuffs have no splits and it's not clear if they ever had turn ups.

What do you think?

Regards,
Marco

[marco wol]

Wow, 58 views and nobody has made a comment. This must be a rare tunic indeed.

[NickG]

OK I'll start...
Its is definately a para-military coat with incorrect Heer litzen added... The back panel (old fashioned rock cut) +belt support ramps (so no internal belt support hooks here) and fully lined interior are indicators of that...Definately not a combat tunic! You are of course right! Those are easy things to spot...but what organization is the question...

Does it have ghosts of SD collar tabs? What about the left sleeve, any traces of an eagle? If it is SiPo (sicherheitsPolizei/Sicherheits Dienst(SD) why does it have "Po" (regular Police) stamps? It does not appear to be in Polizei green, but rather Feldgrau like SS-SD uniforms... Who knows? We would need better pictures...the Po stamp is very fuzzy.... Why would it be stamped Po 1944 I wonder...if its a rock cut tunic? Makes you wonder if the stamps are real and if its even war time....

The SiPo/SD usually had open neck tunics but not always...See image below!
Your tunic appears to lack neck closure hooks...were those removed? What does it look like fully closed and when worn pressed open? Looks odd...
My advise is to re-post this (or make a link) in the Polizei section for more expert opinions!

[Bob Hritz]

This has a very closr resemblance to the Grenschutz tunics of the post WWII era. Check to see of the uppermost buttonhole matches all the other 4 buttonholes.

Many of the 4 button Grenschutz, post war tunics, were dyed black to make fake SS tunics. The upper collar material did not match the lapels.

I would be most suspicious of this tunic.

Bob Hritz

[marco wol]

Thank you NickG and Bob for yor help so far.
The Po stamp is indeed fuzzy and the date 1944 is what I can make of it.

Like I said, the buttons of the closure have been replaced from the right to the left side, even leaving the old buttonholes open. Most buttons have no markings, but some are marked MOTZ.

There are some left-over threads of the original collar tabs. These could not have been from SS tabs because they are to long. No trace of closure hooks.

Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems there has been an eagle on the left sleeve. The tunic is so heavily worn, I can hardly make out. I'm not even sure of it.

The story about the Grenzschuts tunics is interesting. Does someone have a picture of it?

Regards,
Marco

[NickG]

This has a very closr resemblance to the Grenschutz tunics of the post WWII era. Check to see of the uppermost buttonhole matches all the other 4 buttonholes.

Many of the 4 button Grenschutz, post war tunics, were dyed black to make fake SS tunics. The upper collar material did not match the lapels.

I would be most suspicious of this tunic.

Bob Hritz

BGS (Bundesgrenzschutz) uniforms (even early ones) had external pleated box pockets as far as I know... not angled internal skirt pockets with pocket flaps only showing...
(like the uniform shown in this thread and the ww2 image below of customs officials)
Not saying that makes this tunic a genuine pre 1945 piece, its not proof, but I don't think its early BGS... Maybe there is some hope and its war time "Zollgrenzschutz"?
These ww2 customs uniforms did not always have the green edge piping (front closure and French cuffs) or zoll cufftitles...as shown in the period image! and button counts on those tunics varied also!
and war time Zoll usually had slip on shoulderboards...and this uniform has provisions for slip-ons...
So it could fit the bill for that service branch...

HOWEVER the bogus PO1944 (Polizei) stamp does make is a very suspicious piece!!!