Ss Schirmmutze

[giorgio]

the last one.......

[giorgio]

Ok Graywolf......here we are....now "rien ne va plus"
Ciao Giorgio

[SScollector]

The insignia definitely looks like reproductions to me.
Thanks! Chris

[SgtB]

I agree with Chris that the badges look totally bogus, but the cap itself
is a possible. The lining looks a little strange. Is the sweatshield definitely
celluloid and is there a maker's mark?

Notice the leather sweatband was supplied by Karl Heisler of Berlin - the
same guy who supplied the liners for most FJ helmets.

[Sonderkommando]

Is this a joke thread and I'm missing the joke or is this serious?
Brian, the cap cant be "a possible" as it's dated 1948!

[Sayle F]

I think it says 1943

[Dave Kane]

Brett, that was the 'overstock' of visor sweatbands that because of attrition had to be moved up a few years to keep up with the Officer demand for visor caps!

Really, though the cap is a fake and it certainly isn't '1943'!
Dave

[SgtB]

Hey Dave! Be honest now, out of the 1 million SS visors made during the
war, how many have you handled?

I don't know how you can outright declare this cap to be a fake from
the pictures provided. True the odds are greatly in favor of it and I believe it probably is myself. But there is lots of room for doubt.

First of all the material of the crown is spot on accurate, the same with the
wool band. The chinstrap is certainly real. Army to be sure, but that was an
extremely common practice. And the visor appears ok from the poor angles.

There are believable repairs evident here and there and the piping doesn't
talk to me one way or another. Of course the badges are bogus but most
SS visors have postwar applied badges, sometimes good - sometimes bad.

From the angles given, the sweatband looks ok. And it looks like 1943 on
my monitor. As stated in my first response I don't like the looks of the lining
because it looks like a synthetic material. Nylon taffeta or something, maybe.
But sometimes rayon or artificial satins look like that in photos. If it is
synthetic, I would concede immediately that the cap is phony, But I can't
be 100% positive from these pics alone. It appears to have a lot of age
and wear.

You can yell "Fake" and the odds are definitely in your favor, but I would
prefer a hands-on inspection to do that.

[John Pic]

One observation I will make is that before the 1990s I did not encounter many SS visors made from this material although many tunics are.One thing I learned from a repro dealer is that stocks of this material are still available in Europe unlike original German tricot or the original wool which would have to be "harvested" from old parts of coats and hats.The date looks like 48 but I would have to look at it in hand the band does appear nice and tight but I dont like the join under the chinstrap of the white piping its very sloppy work.

[SgtB]

I agree with you 100% John, but it could be argued that since 1990,
twice as many original SS visors have seen the light of day as in the
whole 45 years prior, due to all the old soldiers fading away.

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a cap known as the "mouse
house" that is made of this material. It is generally accepted as original.

I'm not presenting an argument, just stating observations!

[John Pic]

The Mouse House was actually a different tricot material than this.The mouse house is a standard German gabardine weave.I refer to the material on the above posted cap as iron weave and it is sometimes called Italian.The Mouse house can still be viewed on GDC forum.

[Gary Wood]

I believe this is the weave John is talking about,
cheers,
Gary

[SgtB]

Then I am mistaken about the particular cap. I did see one made of this cloth
around the same time. I also had a SS-BW marked M-43 made of this Italian
cloth about 10 years ago that everybody liked.

Beautiful cap, Gary! Looks like a M1/24 skull.