15.000 euro "GSSN" scam – opinions please?

[militaria.no]

I hereby post these pictures and text for a friend in Norway, and he is interested in a debate regarding a Germanske SS Norge tunic currently for sale by Weitze (ps! Weitze is not aware of this comparison of insignia):

https://www.weitze.net/detail/31/Ger...n__118131.html

The cores of this discussion is the raven insignia that have been on more than one tunic during the last years. A black GSSN jacket is now listed for sale at Weitze`s site (see link). A Norwegian collector (let’s call him “Sherlock Holmes”) has managed to tie a few loose ends, and tracked down that pictures of this raven have been posted earlier – both as striped and applied on ANOTHER grey GSSN uniform.

In these pictures you can see the evidence that trigged this discussion on a Norwegian forum. As we can see here, every insignia is like a fingerprint with it`s own characteristic features.

What are your opinions when you see these pictures?

[militaria.no]

Here you can see the raven in question on a green GSSN jacket:

[militaria.no]

Here you can see the SAME raven both stripped and applied on the black GSSN jacket currently listed on Weitze`s site (it has previously been listed by relicsofthereich, where this picture is from):

[militaria.no]

Details of the lower part of the raven. "Sherlock Holmes" hope for feedback Thank you in advance

[Dr. Strangelove]

Bird

That Bird is racking up some Frequent Flyer Miles !

[Panzer Rob]

That Bird is racking up some Frequent Flyer Miles !

In all seriousness, there is no doubt that this is the exact same eagle. One question - how did they get the backing material dyed black without so much as a trace of it in the white embroidery?



Very good detective work.

Now... what will Weitze do with the tunic? Time will tell I guess.
Does anybody know who he got it from?


EDIT: It appears as though it passed through Bill Shea... or at least, that's what it says in the description. Notice this was back in 2004:

"Um 1942. Es handelt sich um eine SS-Bergrock (= Skijacke), die von Deutschland nach Norwegen geliefert wurde. Kammerstück in der typischen Ausführung für die SS, hergestellt um 1939. Der SS-Bergrock als 4-Taschenrock in schwarzem Gabardine, die Ärmel innen mit Gummizug als Windschutz, innen mit Durchzug in der Hüfte zum schließen als Windschutz, eingennähte Koppeltragehaken, unter der Koppeltragehakenlasche mit eingenähtem RZM-Stoffetikett. Komplett mit allen Effekten, alle per Hand vernäht. Kragenspiegel mit maschinengesticktem Sonnenrad, der Rangstern als SS-Unterscharführer wurde durch den Kragen durchgesteckt. Um den Kragen umlaufende silber/schwarze Kordel, eingenähte Schulterklappe. Auf dem linken Ärmel der Ärmeladler der Germanske-SS Norge und das Ärmelband "Germanske SS Norge" in RZM-maschinengestickterr Ausführung. Auf dem rechten Oberarm die SS-Ärmelraute für Angehörige der Germanischen SS, in Metallfaden handgestickt, umlaufend die schwarz/silberne Kordel. Die Knöpfe in Aluminium, rückseitig gestempelt "RZM 506/39 SS". Band zum KVK 2. Klasse und Winterschlachtmedaille im Knopfloch original vernäht. Auf der Brust Löcher von einem Steckabzeichen. Innen mit schwarzem Tuchfutter, seitlich die Stempelung der Tuchfabrik. Hinten weißer Größen-Stempel "48". Der Dienstrock ist deutlich getragen, in gutem unberührten Originalzustand. Die Jacke von SS-Unterscharführer Amundsen wurde vor einigen Jahren in Norwegen gefunden. Amundsen diente in der SS-Div. "Wiking" von 1941 bis Ende 1942.

Danach war er auf einer GSSN Schule in Norwegen und verbrachte eine Zeit im SS-Hauptamt in Berlin. An Auszeichnungen erhielt er das Infanteriesturmabzeichen in Silber, KVK 2. Klasse, Winterschlachtmedaille und das Norwegische "Frontkjemper" Abzeichen. Er stammt aus Moss, einem kleinen Ort außerhalb von Oslo, einer von 3 Brüdern, die in der Waffen-SS gedient haben. Ein Bruder Gunnar ist im Frühjahr 1944 gefallen, der 2. Bruder Willi hat den Krieg überlebt. Anbei in Fotokopie ein Bericht über Amundsen aus der norwegischen SS-Zeitung "Heim og Front".

Die Uniform wurde 2004 von einem norwegischen Sammler an Bill Shea, USA verkauft, danach war das Stück wieder in Norwegen (email Korrespondenz und Expertise von Bill Shea anbei). Extrem selten, uns ist keine andere komplette Uniform der Germanske SS Norge bekannt ."



Rob

[militaria.no]

And finally, from Weitze`s site:

[Massimo F.]

another proof that reworked tunics are bouncing from dealer to dealer and sold with the "untouched since 1945" or other similar fables ....
You got a good eye in Norway

[colt45s]

WHEN IT WAS FOOLED WITH TO SELL FOR MORE $$$ , ITS A JOKE.. WALK AWAY

[Swan]

Why he would use BS as a ref. is beyond me, a very very bad idea.

[John Pic]

Its says the uniform was bought by Bill Shea from a Norwegian collector......I believe,although my German is rusty.

[Johnny R]

Why is any of this surprising when this kind of money is involved. There is a cottage industry of people replacing collars, repiping tunics, and attaching insignia. The eagle is amateur level compared to some of the things I have seen done. I am not speaking of Bill Shea.

[Panzer Rob]

Its says the uniform was bought by Bill Shea from a Norwegian collector......I believe,although my German is rusty.

No, you're correct. It also mentions a certificate of expertise from Bill.


I've done a couple of deals with Bill in the past and found him to be a very experienced, friendly and above all else honest collector/dealer. I highly doubt there were any ill intentions on his part when he sold the tunic, and would be surprised to hear anything other than the fact that he thought the eagle was period applied.


Rob

[Panzer Rob]

What I'd like to know is how on earth did the fakers dye the green backing material on that eagle black without it showing any signs in the white embroidery? Maybe under a loupe it will show, but from these pictures it's a pretty damn convincing job, at least in my opinion.

Very scary stuff.


Rob

[militaria.no]

What I'd like to know is how on earth did the fakers dye the green backing material on that eagle black without it showing any signs in the white embroidery?
Rob

The raven has not been tampered with when it comes to backing material. These ravens were with black backing material for both green and black GSSN uniforms.

Shea and Weitze had no possibility to know a little tailorboy somewhere in Norway fixed up this jacket himself. Some times a stitch is just a stitch, no more no less.

What is sad?? When “serious collectors” do “jobs” like this, someone will spend his hard earned cash on a Mirage...

And in the end: They falsify the history they are so interested in themselves, and IMHO leave a pure rotten heritage

One thing is to restore a tunic out of own interest, and let a potential new owner know what it is all about. Something completely different is when you try to sell a put together with a history to it just to make $£$£$£$£.