Peter,2000K is too much for a flatwire sleeve eagle.I have paid 10 days ago 1300USD for a mint unissued eagle and if I remember this other one has been sold for 1000USD http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=336080
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Waffen officers greatcoat
In my humble opinion, I do not think this coat was ever worn by an SS officer, in fact, I am not sure this coat has ever been worn at all. As someone in a previous post stated, If you are OK with purchasing this garment with the knoweledge that you are purchasing a set of insignia and a coat, then go for it! Although I think it is a bit over-priced, if you think you are purchasing a garment which belonged to an SS officer, run and do not look back!Comment
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Francesco, Yes, deals are around if you can find them. The big "if". Ulrich of England quoted me $2500 for one at the SOS 2 years ago. True that is really the high end, but returning recently from the Kassel show, there was no flatwire anything to be had. If I were "looking" for a great coat, this one is cool. I really like iron gab.Originally posted by Francesco View Post
PeterComment
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Peter,
If you buy it, I will never get your iron gabardine voior hat and will be permanently crushed!
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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Like I said, buy it for the insignias...but not for any other reason. You dont have to take my advice...but because of knowledge I have I wouldnt touch it as an "untouched" item.
Think about what you say Peter in one thread you talk of not being able to find real untouched SS tunics for under $23,000...in another a $4,500 SS Panzer officers greatcoat doesnt bother you a bit. Except you state that if it were "untouched" it would be worth $20,000...huh? what? Are you agreeing that it cannot be real?Comment
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To jump ahead to John's input, I have never seen in any book, collection or museum any tunic, SS or otherwise that had hand sewn insignia or really even machine sewn insignia that I would stake my life on the line as being pre-May 45 applied. How anyone could or would take that bet is beyond me.Originally posted by DKNYC71 View Post
If someone has personal knowledge that something has been enhanced as in having a "before and after" knowledge of a specific item then that is hard to argue with . A number of items have been uncovered in that manner on this and other forums over the years.
For me just looking at this insignia in the photos I can see nothing wrong or suspicious in the application. That appearance may or may not be the actual case if I saw it personally and even them I might not could tell even if the insignia was sewn on it last week, if expertly done!
As for the lack of wear. We are looking at a coat that would have been around for 1 winter season or 2 at the very most. If the owner wore this coat on 60 occasions in the winter of 43-44 in a garrison/school environment and then put it away in a trunk protected from moths and other degrading factors before leaving for the front again in April of 44...where he was KIA in July of 44....how else could this coat look? Leave at home uniforms in near mint condition (except insect damage on many) make up maybe 50% of what we see today...and maybe that is really 90% because true combat worn tunics and trousers are actually very much in the minority.Comment
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Real?
John,Originally posted by John Pic View Post
What I am saying is that if the coat had provinance it would be worth far in excess of $4500. As is, without it, it is a really nice looking rig. Especially with the flatwire sleeve eagle. That is icing on the cake. John, how cheap do you expect these pieces to be? I don't get it
PeterComment
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What constitutes provenance to a degree that you feel is satisfactory?Originally posted by Peter Manzie View PostJohn,
What I am saying is that if the coat had provinance it would be worth far in excess of $4500. As is, without it, it is a really nice looking rig. Especially with the flatwire sleeve eagle. That is icing on the cake. John, how cheap do you expect these pieces to be? I don't get it
Peter
The seller has stated where the coat came from. Would that make any difference if it was in writing and signed? I think that all of us would like a clear wartime photograph of every item like this being worn......maybe one in 500 or 1000 will ever have one.
John has suggested that he his knowledge (at least that is how I have taken his posts on this item) that some or all of the insignia has been added. Does the seller know if the coat came from Germany with this insignia on it? Was the insignia added recently in Germany?
Regardless of when the insignia was attached and what or if there is a story/evidence behind that aspect of this coat, I would still like to know or at least discuss the origin and purpose of the coat itself.
Does the coat have a depot letter/date stamp? Is the lining a full one? Was the collar facing applied during manufacture? If the answers are No, Yes and Yes, then we've got some splainen to do!Comment
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I find it interesting that somebody would make a greatcoat out of that material... seems inappropriate for such a garment. The Italian gaberdine is a stiff material and I wouldn't have had a greatcoat made from it. Be that as it may. If the BR number is authentic then this would be made for enlisted personnel and taken by an officer to have his unique insignia added. As such, greatcoats were very curtailed towards the end of the war, giving to the camouflaged parkas, which were far more warmer and user-friendly, that is, anybody who has worn a greatcoat during a reenactment and in a combat situation has noted that they are considerable cumbersome, one ends up kneeling on them and tripping over them. The two-piece parkas were superior in allowing better performance.
IMHO, I don't have much faith in this greatcoat. I wouldn't want it in my collection. My 2 cents worth for what is it worth.
BobComment
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Great Coat
I think the irob gab material used on this coat is great. For dress purposes, I am sure they were worn right up until the end of the war. Photographic evidance can prove that very easily. I really like the coat and for someone who needs a nice example without having to pay the higher dollar for one with provinance this would be one they should consider.
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Phild..actually its not the coat itself as it is that troubles me..it certainly looks 100% right and a period piece. I just wouldnt pay for it thinking it wasnt messed with and I have my own personal reasons..thats the most i can or want to say.
Peter...I think an original SS officer tunic unattributed to a unit and in primo shape around $5000-7000 depending on rank and extras such as award loops branch piping type of insignias used material and style of cut...this based on realistic price inflation since the 80s. For something from the LAH or other rare units a bit higher. But once you go beyond $10,000 this stops being a hobby and is strictly an investment...a very risky one that requires alot of sugar to be poured on the market values by those who have amassed great collections...they have to spend time on the forums arguing as to why something is worth such a high price and they have to stay ontop of it .
If ONE dealer had never existed we would not be paying such prices for Third Reich militaria IMO...that one dealer has over the years convinced working middle class men young and old...that collecting this can be like collecting Fine Art and "antiques". It has brought people from another class into the Hobby...i.e. the owner of a car dealership who had a passing whim interest in WW2 and could afford to pay high cash dollars for items...until his interest faded and he sold it all back to the dealer for cheaper...this type of dealing has driven prices up and nothing else.
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John,Originally posted by John Pic View PostPhild..actually its not the coat itself as it is that troubles me..it certainly looks 100% right and a period piece. I just wouldnt pay for it thinking it wasnt messed with and I have my own personal reasons..thats the most i can or want to say.
Peter...I think an original SS officer tunic unattributed to a unit and in primo shape around $5000-7000 depending on rank and extras such as award loops branch piping type of insignias used material and style of cut...this based on realistic price inflation since the 80s. For something from the LAH or other rare units a bit higher. But once you go beyond $10,000 this stops being a hobby and is strictly an investment...a very risky one that requires alot of sugar to be poured on the market values by those who have amassed great collections...they have to spend time on the forums arguing as to why something is worth such a high price and they have to stay ontop of it .
If ONE dealer had never existed we would not be paying such prices for Third Reich militaria IMO...that one dealer has over the years convinced working middle class men young and old...that collecting this can be like collecting Fine Art and "antiques". It has brought people from another class into the Hobby...i.e. the owner of a car dealership who had a passing whim interest in WW2 and could afford to pay high cash dollars for items...until his interest faded and he sold it all back to the dealer for cheaper...this type of dealing has driven prices up and nothing else.
Yes, I think we all know that one dealer. Although from previous posts on other threads, he is greatly admired.
PeterComment
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Thank you for the reply's guys.. any more will be welcomed.Comment
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That ONE DEALER has been able to offer things that are about impossible to find elsewhere. That is because he is known to pay well for rare and desireable items. That is the reason he has them and others do not.
Believe me, many big collectors need not defend their stuff on forums. There are dealers and collectors waiting in line for their material. I know, I am on the waiting list for several pieces from big collections.
I would say the forums do not entertain the majority of collectors.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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