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**Mark Holden** · 10-19-2003, 04:41 PM

Ron,

Nothing definitive here but I think they may have been reversible, see Platz der Liebstandarte by Remy Spezzano Front page(in colour) or these are army mouse grey reversible trousers from the winter suit. My other theory is that they are thin material not fur lined I think there are some pictures of torn trousers which show no fur.

Cheers

Mark

Originally posted by Ron V

Beyond a brief mention in Andrew Mollo's volumes on SS uniforms (now 30 plus years old), I've found nothing further about the trousers that were supposedly issued for wear with the fur-lined anoraks. Years of looking haven't turned up any "clear" photos of these trousers being worn, nor have I found any in colections or museums.

Does anyone have any info to share?

Cheers,
Ron Volstad

**Konigstiger** · 10-19-2003, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Mark Holden

Ron,

Nothing definitive here but I think they may have been reversible, see Platz der Liebstandarte by Remy Spezzano Front page(in colour) or these are army mouse grey reversible trousers from the winter suit. My other theory is that they are thin material not fur lined I think there are some pictures of torn trousers which show no fur.

Cheers

Mark

there was a pair on ebay a few months ago and it always seems that in original pictures of soldiers in anoraks, they are wearing some form of heavy pants with their anoraks, but i guess they could just be reversible mouse greys, although matching fur lined pants seems logical

**9SSHohenstaufen** · 10-20-2003, 03:11 PM

hi Ron, i have heard that they were made, seen what looked like a pair on ebay but am unsure, from your art i would have thought you knew about them, they must really be rare if you havnt heard much about them. id be interested in finding out as well.

**Ron V** · 10-20-2003, 05:01 PM

I concur that during the Kharkov battle that the trousers worn with this anorak were the Heer pattern winter over trousers. They look to have had the wool field gray outer shell, judging from the period photos. These likely continued to be re-issued in succeeding years (to some extent) as photographic evidence from later campaigns seems to support this.

Andrew Mollo's description is as follows: "Overalls were unlined and unquilted, and designed to be worn over ordinary trousers. The bottoms of the trousers finished in a gaiter, which fitted over the boot with laces and footstraps; by this time the lace-up ankle boot was in genral use, and the gaiter prevented snow from entering the boot." There is an accompanying photo that clearly shows the extra length for the gaiter, but further details aren't clear. From this, I surmise that this item was first issued for the winter of 43/44 when the stock of Heer winter trousers was diminished.

I've seen some photos from the fighting in Hungary in 1945, and this type of trouser seems to have been commonly worn with the anoraks, but alas, details have eluded me. Wish I had seem the e-bay item.

Thanks for any help.

Ron V

**Lloyd I.** · 10-26-2003, 12:50 PM

Patrick Agte's book on Peiper has 4 clearer than most images of these trousers and you can tell from the photographs that they arent the mouse gray over trousers. They arent sewn in blocks near the knee as the overtrousers in mouse gray are and appear to have a waistband string to secure them. Im not near my references now to give page numbers but it appears close to mid-book around the Karkhov section both before and after the series featuring Fritz Witt and Von Westernhagen. The overtrousers all appear to fall over the boots to the extent that they get caught under the heel unless tucked into the boots.

Unfortunately most of the images I have seen in ATB, W-SS photographic refs, and even authentic unpublished SS-Kriegsberichter photos dont show these clear enough.

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Trousers for the Fur-lined "Kharkov" Parka

Trousers for the Fur-lined "Kharkov" Parka

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