what are appening in waf - SS room?

[Gary Symonds]

That about says it all. many feel inclined to give an uninformed opinion just because they can. I put up a great vet bought cap I got right from the vet himself along with a bunch of great guns and other items. Because it was something most had not seen before I was personally pilloried even though privately the some of most respected collectors not on the forums told me there was nothing wrong with it. Who needs the agravation? The forums are fun and often informative, but the misinformation, personal agendas and brazenly outspoken ignorance can nullify the benefits. This keeps the top old experts away as they don't need to deal with this crap in the first place or teach the uninformed so the collecting community suffers as a whole.

I am in perfect agreement. If you demand facts to challenge the "expert" opinion, all you get is nonsense. I have been told that if I want evidence, "go to such and such a thread". When you go to the thread, sometimes it is helpful, often times of no real value. You go back and tell the expert the thread did not help. Then you will be told the stupidist remark of all. "Well, if we posted the evidence to support a claim of "reproduction", this will only help the fakers, who are always watching the WAF to continue their wicked, wicked, ways. That is not a substitute for evidence.

I recently posted some pictures of a pair of SS cuff links for review, plus a picture from Life magazine showing SS evening wear during the 30s. A senior expert wrote a silly caption on the period picture, implying the cufflinks were "reproduction", Another "senior expert" posted over a funny face on one of the men in the picture. By coincidence, Hermann Historica of Munich at about the same time posted an identical set of cuff links for sale in an upcoming auction in April. I assume Hermann Historica may know more than these "experts". Did any of these guys have the honesty to say, "Gee, maybe I was wrong"! No way. Just conveniently swept under the Tony Barto carpet, by time itself. Right guys?

[Thorsten B.]

There is a lot of money in the game.

There are human beings with different interests part of the game as well.

Sorry - but: when it comes to thousands and more and more thousands of bucks being involved I can still call it a fascinating hobby but it has become a big business for sure.

How many in future will still be able and willing to take the monetary risk and join such a game?

I think that this is a if not THE key factor that leads to the development being described in most of the posts ahead - combined with all positive and negative side-effects.

Real experts may have shared infos as well as pics - that demands in the long run a well-running system of give and take.
When others only demand and demand but do not give anything (other than crazy comments if the advanced collector does not share fast enough!) one can count the time when the "Giver" does not want to be part in the game anymore.

That will happen sooner or later in every collector forum and the habit of forum-hopping won´t change that because the involved persons in general stay the same.
It is sometimes noteworthy as well how german collectors are treated: the pieces this forum is mainly all about come from Germany (especially SS, of course) but some US-Americans behave as if they know the cultural attitudes and developments (which lead to the answers to why a piece was made this and no other way) better than people being born and raised here.

On the other hand this is still a very informative forum and it is the best one I know worldwide.

What really fascinates most of us here is getting satisfaction for the very old habit of man in worlds history: the man is a hunter and will always be - no matter what politics of today try to change in genetic atmosphere but nature has it´s own laws and whatever we´ll do in future we are part of nature´s game.

This forum won´t die but is a reflection of collectors community and economic ups-and-downs.

[RobertE]

Rudeness and arrogance are something that gets my goat. The cyber bullies that have established dominance in this forum routine attack posters if they don't bow to the self-appointed experts' opinion, which is usually no better explained than "we know, and if you don't listen than we can't help you".

Other forums, such as the police or buckle forums, provide excellent feedback and reviews. The SS forum often does not.

I have had vet-acquired pieces from decades ago trashed by people that are no better (less in many cases) qualified to remark on SS gear than I. I understand why some collectors don't wish to expose themselves to these frustrating exchanges.

I have many a number of friendly collecting peers on this forum, and am very pleased with that aspect of the WAF SS forum.

s/f Robert

[jacquesf]

Same thing happened on the Uniforms, helmet and soft headgear forums. Jacques

[phild]

Same thing happened on the Uniforms, helmet and soft headgear forums. Jacques

Yes, you are right.

There are some great comments being posted in this thread and the truth is these hold true for most every higher end collector interest these days (even outside of militaria) and not just SS.

Big money and big business equals high incentive to produce superb and controversial fakes. Right or wrong (usually mostly wrong IMO) certain people's opinion carry a lot of weight with buyers who don't know the items themselves....so these everything needs to be vetted by these influence brokers...who are also dealers (at least somewhat) so a perfect conflict of interest set up!


I can see most any item that I own with no questions asked if a run it through a major dealer( for a price) but I will get a ton of balkers if I try and do it directly...even at a much cheaper price.....this is common for all hobbies.

[Robin Lumsden]

...........wrote a silly caption on the period picture..............

Sorry.

That was my pathetic attempt at humour.

It's what the forum lacks these days................

Humour.

[Gary Symonds]

Sorry.

That was my pathetic attempt at humour.

It's what the forum lacks these days................

Humour.

Robin:
Apology is greatfully accepted.
Gary.

[Hundestaffel]

If anyone is looking for some real lessons in extreme arrogance, rudeness, and crassness where every simple conversation is guaranteed to turn into a "must win" uber-ego competition, please feel free to tune into the Photos and Paper Items Forum at any point in time.

And people actually wonder why the lack of posts here on this Forum ???


"Hundestaffel"

[Massimo F.]

Sorry.

That was my pathetic attempt at humour.

It's what the forum lacks these days................

Humour.

Exactly! well said Mr. Lumsden!
sometimes it sounds like we're discussing some religious dogma while we're just arguing over a scrap of musty soiled old cloth ...

[Robin Lumsden]

Exactly! well said Mr. Lumsden!
sometimes it sounds like we're discussing some religious dogma while we're just arguing over a scrap of musty soiled old cloth ...

[judas]

If anyone is looking for some real lessons in extreme arrogance, rudeness, and crassness where every simple conversation is guaranteed to turn into a "must win" uber-ego competition, please feel free to tune into the Photos and Paper Items Forum at any point in time.

And people actually wonder why the lack of posts here on this Forum ???


"Hundestaffel"

try the wehrpass .soldbuch and military ids , some even rase there head's here some times and turn the topics in to a hole war

[John Pen.]

"Hundestaffel" ,

Uh oh, there goes your "yapper"(as you call it) again.

Hmmmm ......extreme arrogance, rudeness, and crassness?
No, you di' 'nt accuse others of that!

I really like the photos you post....... please stick with that.

The Photos and Paper Items Forum, from what I've been reading, has recently had some serious discussions between some very knowledgable members about some very interesting subjects. I don't see alot of bad behavior there........certainly no more then here. The "experts" that give opinions on that Forum are very kind, helpful and generous to all that ask. IMO. I sse very little arrogance, rudeness, or crass behavior there,...... well lately.

-------------------------------

To all members,

I think if people can just treat others the way they wish to be treated(and/or would have wished to have been treated when they were "new"), everyting can go smoothly on these forums.

It's just when some members ego's get out of control. Sometimes a member thinks that he is at a special/higher level and therefore can treat others badly for no reason at all, other than the belief that there will be no response to the abuse.
It's not right, and it should not be tolerated. I encourage all members to call out members as soon as they behave badly.

Perhaps I will be "called out" on this post for behaving badly. If so,...

Regards,

John Pen.

[Ian Hulley]

What's the big secret?

1) Forum burnout ... the experienced people are fed up of the same old fakes being posted on a daily or more often basis and then being pilliaried for not giving 20 lines on why this common fake isn't IIIrd Reich manufacture. Then when you go on another forum the same item is being posted again in the same words by a different 'name', often with a different 'location' and the same arguement starts all over again.

2) Small networks of new people are also ganging up to attack long-standing members. Forming their own list of what's original and not and authenticating each other in spite of the weight of evidence.

Ian

[John Pen.]

1) Forum burnout ...
2) Small networks ......
Ian

Two very good and valid points.

Jp

[nutmeg]

1) Forum burnout ... the experienced people are fed up of the same old fakes being posted on a daily or more often basis and then being pilliaried for not giving 20 lines on why this common fake isn't IIIrd Reich manufacture. Then when you go on another forum the same item is being posted again in the same words by a different 'name', often with a different 'location' and the same arguement starts all over again.

2) Small networks of new people are also ganging up to attack long-standing members. Forming their own list of what's original and not and authenticating each other in spite of the weight of evidence.

Ian

How true! Reminds me of the new young guns in town looking to pick a fight with the old gun slinger to make a name for themselves.