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**Erwin L** · 09-13-2008, 10:52 AM

Hello Gerd

Does it has traces of an eagle? Personally i think the colour of the thread used to make this cap is kind of strange. It looks like it is coloured due to dying it black.

Regards Erwin

**willysproject** · 09-13-2008, 11:00 AM

It's not strange, but bleached and discolored due to exposure to the sun etc. Take good look at how the thread on the inside of the side panels is solid black...
It's has traces of an eagle. It's visible on the pics. Or are the pics that bad?

kind regards,
Gerd V

Originally posted by Erwin L View Post

Hello Gerd

Does it has traces of an eagle? Personally i think the colour of the thread used to make this cap is kind of strange. It looks like it is coloured due to dying it black.

Regards Erwin

**willysproject** · 09-13-2008, 11:02 AM

No, it's not dyed black at all. That's what I can say for sure holding the cap in my hands

Kind regards,
Gerd V

Originally posted by Gran Sasso View Post

Maybee thats a bad sign..?

To me it looks like a Marine-Artillerie sidecap that has been dyed black. But lets wait for other opinions.

**willysproject** · 09-13-2008, 11:11 AM

Hi Glenn,

The wear on the outside of the cap is nap wear on the obvious and natural places. The lining shows use and wear as well, but no rips or tears.

Seeing the comments so far, I believe the pics must be realy bad on the screen to make a judgement. Holding the cap in my hand I can only say that it's a textbook SS-cut Pz cap that shows good wear and discoloration on the exposed treads due to exposure to the sun. If people judge this as a dyed KM cap, than there must be something wrong with their monitor, eyes, or just my pics. Being polite I figure it will be my pics.

Kind regards,
Gerd V

Originally posted by Glenn McInnes View Post

Interesting to see how well worn the exterior is,yet the interior looks mint.But I did not think you were asking for opinions.

Glenn

**Francesco** · 09-13-2008, 01:22 PM

The cap looks good and the cosnstruction is correct for the SS.
Would be nice to see additional pics to the inside to see the use and wear to the lining.

**NickG** · 09-13-2008, 02:15 PM

How come the replacement skull (in tan color) has brown eye sockets etc... is that discoloration also??? or a variation pattern that I am not aware of?
Its not a standard tropical skull as far as I can tell ...as those have black highlights, just like the continental ones... To me its a strange skull (claimed to be tropical?) but the cap looks nice to me!
Here's a standard tropical skull with no brown highlights, never seen one with brown areas before... but it does look well made. Interesting piece!

Attached Files

tropskull.jpg (13.6 KB, 327 views)

**Luc** · 09-13-2008, 02:21 PM

Gerd
Is this the same cap that I saw some months ago at my home and that we compared with the two pz caps of my collection? IMO there was nothing wrong with the cap, same style as mines and for sure SS cut.
If the skull is applied during or after the war.. who will tell.. nobody..!!
It is always a guess. The inside of the cap was the same as mine, so IMO a nice original ss pz overseas cap. Restore it with the correct insignia and you have a nice ss pz cap !!

**afrikasandman** · 09-13-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by NickG View Post

How come the replacement skull (in tan color) has brown eye sockets etc... is that discoloration also??? or a variation pattern that I am not aware of?
Its not a standard tropical skull as far as I can tell ...as those have black highlights, just like the continental ones... To me its a strange skull (claimed to be tropical?) but the cap looks nice to me!
Here's a standard tropical skull with no brown highlights, never seen one with brown areas before... but it does look well made. Interesting piece!

Nick, i was thinking the same thing. But if the stiching thread has faded i suppose its possible that the skull color faded too. But seems odd that the skull and thread would have faded so much and not the rest of the color to the cap. I could be wrong and perhaps there is good fading, my monitor isn't the best on my mac laptop but just an observation. Matt

**johnm50** · 09-13-2008, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by afrikasandman View Post

But if the stiching thread has faded i suppose its possible that the skull color faded too.

Looks like a dyed cap to me and chemically bleached to give it a faded look on the outside, I have seen something similar on a cap a london dealer had where the skulls had been dyed and then bleached, the eyes and nose and loose threads around the skull went brown apparently this is a result of chloride bleach that burns the dye so i was told

Also why is the skull stitching on the inside of the flap is just as faded as the thread on the outside, this would have been protected from the elements and UV?

Best,
John

**willysproject** · 09-14-2008, 02:58 AM

It's not a dyed cap. Else it would have been a grey colored cap with a black artificial silk lining. You cannot dye artificial silk black this way. The black collor will never 'take' on artificial silk

And to reply on your question of the stiching... Did I say or mention that the tread of the skull has faded? No, the color you see on the inside of the flap is almost just the same as the color on the outside. So, that observation is as dead wrong as you comment.

I must say that I've heard quite some stunning remarks here on a textbook black SS cap. remarks by some people who undoubtly have never owned any SS cap, nor know how the cut etc. should look like. (But let's call that forum wisdom.) Let's just jump on the wagon.

The initial question was the applied skull, not the cap. I'll make some better pics of it all.

Gerd V

Originally posted by johnm50 View Post

Also why is the skull stitching on the inside of the flap is just as faded as the thread on the outside, this would have been protected from the elements and UV?

Best,
John

**BenVK** · 09-14-2008, 03:37 AM

Hi Gerd, maybe try taking some shots using a different camera. I hate to say it but the exterior cloth of the cap, the stitching and the black details of the skull all have a distinct magenta coloured tint on my monitor as well. If it's truly black in the flesh, it must be a problem with the camera.

**Erwin L** · 09-14-2008, 04:29 AM

Hello Gerd

I had a simular cap a while ago. Same cut different interieur. The one i had was also an ss pz one with traces of an lw eagle and kokarde. It was difficult to photograph this ghost eagle and kokarde. It was very difficult to convince people. Only people who had it hand thought the same. The ghost matches perfectly a lw eagle and kokarde and not a ss eagle and deathshead.

Conclusion for me and others: It was an ss pz cap used by the hg pz.

People give opinions based on the pictures they get or see. Some pictures could be misleading due to using of a flash, some people take pictures inside. Just my 1 cent

regards

Erwin

**willysproject** · 09-14-2008, 08:11 AM

Hi here are some more pics taken with different camera's.
I've removed the skull as that question -most likely a replacement (maybe tinkered with)-has been answered now.

The shadow on the cap looks more or less like a circle. So, the option of an SS-issue Pz cap used by the HG Div is most likely to me.

kind regards,
Gerd V

Attached Files

Afbeelding 9154.jpg (106.7 KB, 279 views)

**willysproject** · 09-14-2008, 08:12 AM

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Afbeelding 9155.jpg (87.7 KB, 277 views)

**willysproject** · 09-14-2008, 08:13 AM

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Afbeelding 9156.jpg (124.5 KB, 274 views)

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