the cap on e-stand

[Sergey]

Hello guys what is your opinion on this cap http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=298878

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Sergey, I would have several concerns:

The nap of the cloth is very worn both under and behind the turn ups.

On a 1939 dated cap I would expect to see evidence of a soutach. There is non I can see?

The angle of the cut to the front of the cap is almost at a 90 degree angle, not the usual cut which is at a reverse angle.

Stitching to the crown of the cap.

Lack of wear to the interior compared to the exterior.

Cheers, Ade.

[Barzini]

To me it is an original unissued cap that has not been stored properly or that has been artificially aged.
I agree that in the first picture the slope of the front cut seems excessive, but in the second one it is correct so I m suspecting that the first picture has not been taken properly – better ask confirmation to the seller about this.

IMO materials and manufacturer stamps are ok

Cheers

[vbergman1]

I'm not sure if I am supposed to post comments about my own item, but concerning the soutache, the SS-VT caps didn't always have soutache. I've examined several pre-war photos of SS men wearing this cap (in Mike Beaver's book Uniforms of the Waffen-SS, Vol. 1), there is no evidence of soutache. I realize this cap is dated 1939. I looked again and there are no holes at the base for insertion of the ends of the soutache.

The angle of the front of the cap...if this is what I think it is, I believe this angle is accomplished by folding and pressing the crown of the cap in a particular fashion, not by the way the cap is cut and sewn. If I'm wrong, please post photos of a correct cap so I can learn.

So please tell what you mean by "stitching to the crown of the cap". Like I said, I would like to learn more, as headgear is not my specialty

thanks much!

[mgschutze]

I think this cap is a repro.
I dont like the inside and stamps, I could make the same. The cap is damaged by moth inside the edge. I've never seen sow much damage inside at an for sure original one. This one looks manufactured from original coats, like much modern repro's. But that's my opinion

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi, of course you are allowed to comment on your own item It is best if people do, because they have the item in hand and can answer questions much better than trying to interpret a photo.

One of the strenghts of the E Stand system here is we all look after one another and by discussing any item for sale, any concerns can be talked over and we can educate one another and of course any bad items can hopefully weeded out.

My biggest concern is the cloth. This is undoubtably original. However, I fail to see how the nap of the cloth exhibits wear behind the turn ups and to the main body of the cap which would have been protected by the turn ups. To be blunt, I think it has been made up from a greatcoat.

I would agree, not every SS-VT cap had a soutach, but I would have expected one to be present on a 1939 dated example.

I do think the cut of the cap looks odd in the pics? Checkout the angle of the front of these caps which were for sale here. I don't think it is how they are pressed. I realise the pics are dark, but try and see what I mean about the seams to the crown:

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/WaffenSS/02Headgear.html

Hope this helps?

Cheers, Ade.

[vbergman1]

I see what you mean now about the overall curved shape of the cap. Here's a curious thing tho...as an experiment, for that last 4 years, I've been wearing a decent repro Heer Feldmutze while I work around the house and while I'm sewing--it does a good job of keeping the hair out of my face. It started out straight on the bottom edge but now has a definite curve to the bottom edge--just an observation. If you examine the warp and weft yarns in the fabric, you should be able to tell if the curved bottom was cut that way during manufacture or if it gained that shape due to wearing. I don't have time to examine this SS cap right now for this but will look at it in the morning. Cheers!

[Bob Hritz]

The caps. of this pattern, did not have soutache if issued to the Totenkopfverband (camp personnel) or SD. I have not seen SD or TV personnel wearing soutache on this pattern cap.

I have seen photos of Totenkopf Division men wearing this pattern with soutache. I believe the soutche was for armed elements. There are several good photos of Latvian volunteer wearing outdated issue uniforms and those with this pattern cap did not have soutache.

Bob Hritz

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Bob, agreed. I think the SS-TV version was in earth grey coloured cloth?

The soutach was certainly an SS-VT affectation.

Cheers, Ade.

[Bob Hritz]

The Totenkopfverbande pattern came in both earth brown cotton twill and wool, and earth gray cotton twill and wool. By 1940, most were wearing the standard M-37 4 button, open collar tunics and this pattern overseas cap in feldgrau wool. The VT units were getting the new tunics and the TV were getting the older models.

Bob Hritz

[Adrian Stevenson]

Thanks Bob

Would you venture an opinion on the cap presented here please?

Cheers, Ade.

[Bob Hritz]

There are certainly many makers of this pattern overseas cap. Normally, I would expect more of a curve to the scallop cut front. This is clearly most visible in period photos. I do not know if the cap is authentic, but that alone, would give me pause.

I post this photo of a cap in which I have confidence.

Bob Hritz

[Bob Hritz]

The marking in the above posted cap. Sorry for the dangling len's cover, in the left of the photo.

Bob Hritz

[Adrian Stevenson]

Thanks Bob. I too would have condfidence in the cap you illustrate.

That exhibits the cut I would expect to see and the quality of workmanship too. For ease of comparison between the two caps, I have borrowed the pic from the e stand thread.

Cheers, Ade.

[Robert H]

I only would buy a cap in exactly the same cut as shown from Bob H.

Of course Bob shows one cap with might the best marking stamp someone can dream about to find