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    #151
    Originally posted by charlemagneXX View Post
    Who would ever fake an original that is not known??
    It happens ALL THE TIME. Many fakers intentionally produce something similar to, but distinctly--sometimes radically--different from, known originals in order to prevent comparison with actual originals, which would make the flaws in the fake stand out. Instead, the maker of the fake hopes that his unique creation will be believed to be a period variation or a newly-discovered period style which saw very limited production or was a prototype, which never saw mass production.

    I see it frequently with bogus creations of insignia with maker marks and styles which resemble no known original. Often, the hopeful owners of these obvious fakes defend them as "ultra rare" originals that the rest of the dedicated collecting world has simply never seen. They, like you, can't accept the reality that their "rare" discovery is nothing more than the product of a faker with a creative mind.

    Many of them, probably to this day still own their fantasy crap, refusing to accept the truth, despite having been told otherwise by some of the most knowledgeable in the field. They can enjoy their fool's paradise so long as they don't find a need to sell thier piece. If/when that occurs, they again face the harsh reality that few will accept their bogus crap as real. Still, though difficult, it is not impossible to sell such crap, since there is always some other fool out there who is willing and eager to accept a tall tale in hopes of owning something rare at a bargain price. There is a sucker born every minute.

    Comment

      #152
      I like the movies a lot.

      But I don't see why people in the know have kept going. I mean if they dropped it the op would no doubt go away. No choice really, unless he wants to talk to himself.

      I am actually surprised that it has gone on as long as it has. I though that there was a test for buttons of the period?? I mean I know they are post war, but if the buttons are fake I was under the impression they would not stand up to a hot needle. Probably bad info I picked up over the years and never used as I dont touch cloth.

      But you guys are being had. Make more movies!!

      Comment

        #153
        I see it frequently with bogus creations of insignia with maker marks and styles which resemble no known original. Often, the hopeful owners of these obvious fakes defend them as "ultra rare" originals that the rest of the dedicated collecting world has simply never seen. They, like you, can't accept the reality that their "rare" discovery is nothing more than the product of a faker with a creative mind.
        This happen from time to time..., but even a extremely creative faker, can't
        change any facts of components of his faked piece, that's how we can know
        it's a fake or not.

        A faker wants to make profit..., but it's promise non profit to print a tissue in
        a 100% IR-absorbing, alternative CSSR-Leibermuster on the original SS-Druck-
        walze of this pattern..., this must have been an extremely expensive and diffi-
        cult work.
        In addition he spent hours in handmade buttonholes ans detailes, that copied
        exactly the style and material of the late Ravensbrück-production...

        This kind of expensive and extremly difficult work for a prototype in a pattern,
        that even many of collectors not know that it's related to Texled-production.

        This is not only almost impossible..., it's makes simply no sense.

        If somebody really makes something like that, he would choose a more known
        pattern of SS, perhaps an altered pattern of Leibermuster M45, because this
        would promise some profit and it would be much easier, because there are so
        many fakes (almost all) of this pattern on the market.

        I can accept any factual argument about this jacket, that tells us why it have
        to be a fake.
        I will not accept any declaration of this jacket as a fake, that has not only one
        single logical solutions for facts of the jacket.

        At least we know the prototypes of this SS-pattern must have been existed...,
        so tell me why it's impossible that one day someone come here and show one.

        To reject this possibility in general, is a very ignorant and unrespectable choice
        for any respectable collector of SS-cloth.

        Perhaps you ask yourself, what would a prototype of this pattern look like or
        what facts would this piece differentiate from a other cloth with this pattern.

        From this point of view you must admit, that we have here a lot to clear about
        this jacket, especially about the facts that i mentioned in my list of questions...

        It is not enough to say it's faked without logical solutions to facts of it, some
        theorys about US-buttons or low prices is definately not enough..., especially
        not for a forum for collectors of this matter.
        Last edited by charlemagneXX; 06-09-2008, 01:41 AM.

        Comment

          #154
          ...and we still have to talk about these pictures:

          Division Skanderberg 1945:


          Division Charlemagne 1945:
          Last edited by charlemagneXX; 06-09-2008, 02:26 AM.

          Comment

            #155
            Look in Brassy's book on camo pg 48, Charlemagne. It is the Same camo and even the same foliage loops. This was not made by or for the Germans. Why do you keep asking about the pics you post? They have no relevance to the Czech uniform you showed on this thread.

            Comment

              #156
              Ok, Charlamagne...show us good clear photos of what an accepted late Ravensbruck made piece looks like, and show us the corresponding details on this so-called prototype piece of yours...if you can do this, then it would lend some weight to your position...if you can't then it reflects rather badly on anything you might say...fair enough? Here's an opportunity for you to prove your point with more than something than just hollow words. Without such evidence, how do we know this is not just some unique prototype made by the czechs after the war?

              Comment

                #157
                Admitting the topic of leibermuster is beyond my knowledge, I have to admit also this particular thread has given me a headache. It seems that those familiar with this topic have stated their factual answers, and the exception to this would be an individual who prefers not to look into any reference material that has been suggested.... Another case of it must be real regardless of facts.

                Have a good time with this new jacket whomever owns it, It does have the ring of warsaw pact to it. Thanks also to those who took the time to point out valid points and references so those like myself may actually learn about something of interest.

                Joe

                Comment

                  #158
                  ...we are still waiting for photos from inside the jacket! You, Charlemagne, write books about your czech jacket, but where are the more detailed photos, the whole collection-world is waiting for? Don't bore us with this embarrasing stamp-pictures!

                  Comment

                    #159
                    Hi

                    The box is clearly staged and without any corrosion.The tunic and all its content has no visible signs of any fongus.
                    The rum and cigars, com on people!
                    I do not trust these detector...what? wrong tread??

                    Comment

                      #160
                      Dear Fellow Members,

                      I was just reading through this thread, and you know, I had a great time on it My comment would be, let this guy think it is a good one, and dont stress on this stuff, if he is that blackend that he wouldn`t even listen to people who are in this hobby for decades, then wats the point ? ? ?.... going on with stuff that he had it for this an that many years, yea he must have had it and it was made by him and he made a story to fool others...its common with dealers...isn`t that true?..... anyway and I recon that dealer has many fakes on his site and i think its a "german snyders treasure" .... it reminded me of that...


                      Cheers.

                      Les.

                      Comment

                        #161
                        Originally posted by charlemagneXX View Post
                        but it's promise non profit to print a tissue in
                        a 100% IR-absorbing, alternative CSSR-Leibermuster on the original SS-Druck-
                        walze of this pattern..., this must have been an extremely expensive and diffi-
                        cult work.
                        One Dying print? Only one print cylinder ? Are you really sure?

                        Comment

                          #162
                          Originally posted by charlemagneXX View Post
                          This happen from time to time..., but even a extremely creative faker, can't
                          change any facts of components of his faked piece, that's how we can know
                          it's a fake or not.

                          A faker wants to make profit..., but it's promise non profit to print a tissue in
                          a 100% IR-absorbing, alternative CSSR-Leibermuster on the original SS-Druck-
                          walze of this pattern..., this must have been an extremely expensive and diffi-
                          cult work.
                          In addition he spent hours in handmade buttonholes ans detailes, that copied
                          exactly the style and material of the late Ravensbrück-production...

                          This kind of expensive and extremly difficult work for a prototype in a pattern,
                          that even many of collectors not know that it's related to Texled-production.

                          This is not only almost impossible..., it's makes simply no sense.

                          If somebody really makes something like that, he would choose a more known
                          pattern of SS, perhaps an altered pattern of Leibermuster M45, because this
                          would promise some profit and it would be much easier, because there are so
                          many fakes (almost all) of this pattern on the market.

                          I can accept any factual argument about this jacket, that tells us why it have
                          to be a fake.
                          I will not accept any declaration of this jacket as a fake, that has not only one
                          single logical solutions for facts of the jacket.

                          At least we know the prototypes of this SS-pattern must have been existed...,
                          so tell me why it's impossible that one day someone come here and show one.

                          To reject this possibility in general, is a very ignorant and unrespectable choice
                          for any respectable collector of SS-cloth.

                          Perhaps you ask yourself, what would a prototype of this pattern look like or
                          what facts would this piece differentiate from a other cloth with this pattern.

                          From this point of view you must admit, that we have here a lot to clear about
                          this jacket, especially about the facts that i mentioned in my list of questions...

                          It is not enough to say it's faked without logical solutions to facts of it, some
                          theorys about US-buttons or low prices is definately not enough..., especially
                          not for a forum for collectors of this matter.


                          you are sutch a d***head! .... there is no other word.
                          Last edited by Gary Wood; 06-09-2008, 09:09 AM.

                          Comment

                            #163
                            OMG I dont know weather to laigh or cry!

                            This person keep showing pics ( wellknown that is!) of "Leibermuster" which clearly is reversible parkas, Dot 44 etc etc.

                            Im quite amazed with the patience my fellowmembers have shown this new and obiously young collector.

                            I wonder why this fantastic piece not was found in a barn and only in Ravensbruck KZ. Fantastic story BTW

                            Now I can only wait to see more wellknown photos of the Leibermuster in action .....

                            Comment

                              #164
                              Originally posted by charlemagneXX View Post
                              ...and we still have to talk about these pictures:

                              Division Skanderberg 1945:

                              Did not exist at that time also that is not a member from that unit.

                              While members are/have been patience with you as obviously you are a new NOVICE collectors and know very little if anything about the subject you are talking about or camouflage in general as you seem to have trouble identifying the very basic patterns as well as time frames when the images you have posted were actually taken or history of such units.

                              I suggest its time for you to go and buy a few quality reference books on the subject and read them and try to take in what is said in such books, if its difficult for you and you do not understand find a friend to help you understand also search the internet forums to aid you as well in your search, this should in time help you from coming out with the dribble you are coming out with at the moment.

                              I must admit you have been mildly amusing and somewhat boring at the sametime (to me anyway) as a study on how dense and foolish some people are, but with the right help you may over come this but i personally doubt it.

                              Or of course you can take advise and become a groupie and money cow from the seller/dealer of post war CZ jacket and the experts you know that agree with you about the jacket and stop bothering us here and all continue to live in cloud cuckoo land

                              Good luck in what every you decide

                              Comment

                                #165
                                charlemagnexx, are you blind??????????????????????????????????????????

                                Comment

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