Von Happen rides again

[N.C. Wyeth]

Nowadays, they don't even portray soldiers of their OWN country in a favorable light. Besides the obvious disdain many Hollywood producers have for the military, they rarely ever portray it correctly because they simply don't understand how soldiers think, and they could never relate to the concept of sacrificing for one's own country. The officer is usually shown as an unfeeling automoton who needslessly sacrifices his men for some evil, selfish purpose. The truth is, of course, exactly the opposite.

I think I would have to argue somewhat in the defense of some of the film producers of today's generation - I really doubt ANY OF US would know how to portray a WW2 film in the most vivid reality possible, as NONE OF US ever experienced that such reality. Yes, some of today's films are lacking in what we would all HOPE the concept of a film would and should be in depicting authentic war during WW2, but I would still have to give some of them credit - a few still have the consideration of making the extra effort to consult directly with those that HAVE EXPERIENCED the conflict. The trouble is, most of those fellows that have experienced the conflict are long gone, and that experience to build a genuinely authentic and realistic film from is forever gone as well . . .

It would have been great if many of our veterans would have taken up the interest of producing authentic and realistic films depicting their experiences . . .

Regarding the conflicts of more recent generations, I can only say that it would be most respectful of film-makers interested in producing a movie depicting any such related films as to make that extra effort in consulting with a veteran of the specific conflict for authenticity's sake. Following a "Spielberg example" could only endear a movie-makers film all that much more in our hearts, I'm sure . . .

Brad

[90th Light]

There was a time when Hollywood at least got part of it right with the portrayal of military men as noble. Nowadays, they don't even portray soldiers of their OWN country in a favorable light. Besides the obvious disdain many Hollywood producers have for the military, they rarely ever portray it correctly because they simply don't understand how soldiers think, and they could never relate to the concept of sacrificing for one's own country. The officer is usually shown as an unfeeling automoton who needslessly sacrifices his men for some evil, selfish purpose. The truth is, of course, exactly the opposite. Has anyone seen the movie where the German officer browbeats one of his men by asking him if he liked living with men? The soldier doesn't know what to say, so the officer said that since he enlisted, and knew he'd be living with men, therefore he must enjoy it. Finally, the poor guy said, "Well, I guess so." The officer started ranting, "He said YES, he said "YES". The whole pathetic exercise was obviously to portray the basic German soldier as a homosexual. One last thing:
Will SOMEONE please tell these directors that unless they've been in the field for months, SS officers DON'T HAVE LONG HAIR !! They look like Mexican Federales, for God's sake !!

The scene you are referring to is from the film "Cross of Iron" and in that 1976/77 film the directors/produces did a magnificent job. One of the best ever made.

Homosexuality got you an instant ticket to a concentration camp in Hitlers Germany. In fact they are one of the many victums of the camps often never given a mention. I wonder how many members of the Wehrmacht or SS etc went to the camps for that or did they just face an instant execution ?

What is hard for people who have never been to war to understand is the bond which forms between the people who face such adversity. A case of you do not let your mates down and they do not let you down. Men crack up before battle under the stress, no one wants to face a certain death and die but you have to go over the top when the bugle blows or you let your mates die because you are not at your post doing your job. This is in fact the greatest stress any human being can face and one of the reasons why soldiers find it so hard to relate to those who have never been there when they get home. If they get home. This can of course be compounded greatly for a returning wounded soldier. This is what Hollywood/movies find very hard to capture on film.

The other problem is that once you have been to war you then know how low humans can go and who the hell ever wants to remember that. That was the reason why my father never ever wanted to talk about it. How does Hollywood/movies capture that ? A film so powerful that everyone leaves the theater and never wants to talk about it or remember it again as long as they live except for their mates of course, their unit and the others who were there.

If you are in the business to make films and money then you want everyone talking. There is little point in an exclusive movie that fails as a box office smash. Personally I hope Peter Jackson does something as he is a keen collector of WW1 Miltaria and would have the passion & know-how to really achieve something. His Dam-busters film will be an interesting prelude to other possibilities which might yet follow. Personally I would love to see Jochen Peiper's story made into a movie, now there is a real SS man who did his duty to the best of his ability and boy did he pay the price. Would make a great film however but it would take a brave producer to do it right. A true story about the real Waffen SS.

When you think about it "Cross of Iron' came close to hitting the nail of the head and the types of poeple you can encounter in such situations.

War movies bloody war movies, Chris

[Dr. Strangelove]

Hollywood

Jochen Peiper's story made into a Movie? Well that is a nice dream, but I am pretty sure that Hollywood is not going to let somebody as assured and good-looking as Jochen Peiper walk around in a Panzer Wrap barking orders. Good Lord he would aquire an overnite fan club. Tall Blond SS Officers with charisma will never be portrayed in Hollywood, they are scared to death of them.

[Felix]

Jochen Peiper's story made into a Movie? Well that is a nice dream, but I am pretty sure that Hollywood is not going to let somebody as assured and good-looking as Jochen Peiper walk around in a Panzer Wrap barking orders. Good Lord he would aquire an overnite fan club. Tall Blond SS Officers with charisma will never be portrayed in Hollywood, they are scared to death of them.

Brad Pitt looks a bit like Jochen Peiper

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well

More like Peiper's smirky Brother Horst.

[90th Light]

Nice to see my Jochen Peiper movie idea has hit a note.

Yes I admit, for me a dream but one I often like to imagine how I would make and direct.

Its all there, joined upon leaving school, SS-VT, LAH, Waffen SS, KC with oak & swords, Russia, Italy, the Battle of the Bulge, War crimes, what happened to him post war and arguably one of the last actions of the resistance movement in 1976 !!!. A real movie star looker who really did wear a black SS uniform with the armband etc. In fact you could probably make a TV series out of it like "Das Boot" or "Band of Brothers" but that would be a big ask (who knows may be just may be some movie maker may read this).

The more you think about it the more you realise it is a story which needs to be told to more than those of us who have the insight here to study the SS for reasons beyond the basic public perceptions or misconceptions. Its a real story of a real human being who in his career did every thing right and then got left carrying the can. Sort of sounds like todays corporate world does it not

While its my dream and I am going to hold on to it and yes I agree it would be a very brave movie company in world full of "e-ban" but hey they make films like "Downfall" do they not so its not an impossible dream.

Day dream believer, Chris

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Daniel Craig was made for an SS Role, my wife likes him........

[sturmbannfuhrer]

UPDATE: Derren's performance

Derren was excellent in the show last night.

The guy has still got it big time.

Also, according to the program booklet, Derren was at RADA, which makes him among an elite in the profession.

Long may he continue to entertain us.

Note: he was also a No.2 in The Prisoner, good episode that one, as Craig Collins in UFO he was par excellence and his appearance in Man in a Suitcase as I remember showed just what a good heavy should be like.

[Seiler]

Too many night shifts and long hours,mon ami.
Seiler

[Dr. Strangelove]

Daniel Craig?

Daniel Craig as an SS Officer? Well I am just getting used to him as Bond. Don't spring him on me as an SS Officer just yet. Okay maybe, but only if you pin back his ears.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Anton Diffring (SD Col Kramer) was no slouch, either! I've seen him playing German officers in many films such as 'The Heroes of Telemark', 'The Eagle Has Landed', and 'Victory', etc.

Although Karl-Otto Alberty probably has the record!

I believe I remember seeing Nesbitt in a 70's John Wayne movie - 'Brannigan' maybe? Or 'McQ' ?

Hi Brian, I just remembered another great performance from Curd Jurgens as he was known then in Des Teufel General as the German Luftwaffe Officer.

Stunning performance and uniforms.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Yes - the SS Tiger tank commander in Kelly's Heroes - that is one of my favorite movies.

Karl-Otto Alberty also very good as the henpecked Panzer Grenadier Major in Battle of the Bulge, always getting bollockings from Robert Shaw

[sgstandard]

Hollywood

Personally, I have nothing against "Cross of Iron". However, there's NO WAY an officer would have accused a soldier of homosexuality because the soldier enlisted voluntarily. He specifically based his accusation on this fact because he said to the poor guy, "Well, you enlisted voluntarily, and KNEW you'd be living with men - therefore, you must prefer living with men!! Right?" (paraphrasing) This is hogwash, and the result of a Hollywood director's own fantasy. If you think modern Hollywood directors paint a favorable portrayal of the US military, you haven't been to the movies recently. As for Spielberg, he DID portray our men favorably at least, but the scene where a bunch of Waffen-SS troopers laid down their weapons and surrendered to one guy with an M-1, was ALSO a fantasy. Never Hoppen, as they say in good ol' Deutschland. Personally, I think the whole premise of Saving Private Ryan was based on an absurdity. Would they have looked for this guy Ryan? Probably. Would they have risked a Ranger squad and have them running all over the place when they were really needed, just to find some guy because he was the sole surviving son. That seems really far-fetched. I also have to question that a decision would ever be made for a handful of guys to defend an area against armor. Spielberg is at least patriotic. I'll give him that.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Karl-Otto Alberty also very good as the henpecked Panzer Grenadier Major in Battle of the Bulge, always getting bollockings from Robert Shaw

Excellent, on this scene the Panzerlied song, we can just see Alberty as the camera pans around the room:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhMIT...eature=related

J T

[90th Light]

Personally, I have nothing against "Cross of Iron". However, there's NO WAY an officer would have accused a soldier of homosexuality because the soldier enlisted voluntarily. He specifically based his accusation on this fact because he said to the poor guy, "Well, you enlisted voluntarily, and KNEW you'd be living with men - therefore, you must prefer living with men!! Right?" (paraphrasing) This is hogwash, and the result of a Hollywood director's own fantasy. If you think modern Hollywood directors paint a favorable portrayal of the US military, you haven't been to the movies recently. As for Spielberg, he DID portray our men favorably at least, but the scene where a bunch of Waffen-SS troopers laid down their weapons and surrendered to one guy with an M-1, was ALSO a fantasy. Never Hoppen, as they say in good ol' Deutschland. Personally, I think the whole premise of Saving Private Ryan was based on an absurdity. Would they have looked for this guy Ryan? Probably. Would they have risked a Ranger squad and have them running all over the place when they were really needed, just to find some guy because he was the sole surviving son. That seems really far-fetched. I also have to question that a decision would ever be made for a handful of guys to defend an area against armor. Spielberg is at least patriotic. I'll give him that.

The movie "Cross of Iron" is from the book "The Willing Flesh" by Willi Heinrich which was published in Germany in the early 1950's and in England in the mid 1950's Read the book you will get a better idea of what they were trying to achieve. The book is anti-war and what does war ever achieve. The movie also is probably one of the best "anti-war" films ever made but not the only one.

Good question, is "Saving Private Ryan" based on a real event which took place ??? Yes or no ? I have a feeling it is but have never checked that out so perhaps someone here can confirm. They must have based that SS incident on something just like they did with the things which happened in "Band of Brothers"

Does Speilberg not buy up high end, high priced original Third Reich Militaria and destroy it. We are told here in New Zealand that he has no time for the stuff or the collectors. Is this a myth or a reality ??? If true however, I would not view such behavior as very American or patriotic. No matter how much someone dislikes history or is affected by it, no one has a right to deny that it happened or destroy the artifacts from a certain time so other generations can not study them and come to their conclusions about where why and when,

Chris