Finnish commemorative badges for the North fron and arm badges

[Luc]

Here are two different types of Finnish arm badges. Are those originals, they were found together with the 2 commemorative badges for the North front. Those seems original to me.
thanks for your opinions.

[Gaspare]

Luc,,,I've heard a couple times that they reproduce these pieces. BUT, every time I've asked to see a fake or looked for one its never appeared..

They were complicated to make originally. Multi piece construction,,vaulted,,complicated multi colored enamels etc.. The photos aren't the most detailed but these look O.K.

[besslein]

imo opinion the are both not good ,here is only one know German made model of this shilds ,and the few that I have seen from Finnish Vet. are not like this two in question.

[besslein]

here two 10000000% original with SS vet origin.

[Massimo F.]

Hi basslein, can you be a bit more specific on the 2 patches? Is the kind of embroidery? thank you

[Peppe864]

Both patches are fake, no doubt about it.

One of the Nordfront crosses looks bad too.

[Peppe864]

Hi basslein, can you be a bit more specific on the 2 patches? Is the kind of embroidery? thank you

Are you blind?

[Massimo F.]

Hey Mr.Faker are you blind????

Bess please remove your pics....they are too good shots as reference for mr.Faker

why are you calling me Mr.Faker????

[Peppe864]

Sorry about that, it was a wrong post, a missunderstanding.

I meant that the collector community should not give FAKERS that much help with hig res big pics of nice original shields.....

And for you my friend.....open your eyes and look at the difference

Edit: The fakers have tried to get the Finnish-SS arm lion right, but they doesn´t seem to succed, why help them?
A heavily faked piece because there is not much info on the 3 variants 2 black and one locally made red by Stockmann, no I´m not gonna post them here.

PS

Have had a reaaaaally bad day, so there has been a big margin for error and missunderstandings, over and out!

[Peppe864]

why are you calling me Mr.Faker????

If interested buy Olli Wikbergs books.

[Askold]

I've been interested in Finnish shield for a long time. To begin with there are THREE official variations of the shield . The questions that comes up then is - are the shields pictured (with skinny lion) legitimate or fake? Oli Wikberg the author of book on Finnish volunteers states that they are fake. I am sure Oli knows more stuff then all of us, but when examining photos of Finnish SS, I saw a picture of what appears to be the same patch (with the skinny lion) being worn. I don't have the book, but this photo can be found in Cloth insignia of SS by Angola second edition.

P.S. Besslein: Great lions!

[Massimo F.]

Peppe,

well, my first post and got taken as a scammer.... I don't sell anything nor I'm interested in producing fakes... No offence taken anyway I was just curious since I own an example like the 2 posted from basslein and since it is a scarce item to compare with other examples I was just asking more details to somebody who seems to have quite a knowledge on that. Nothing more.
Besides that fakers can get picture from many sources too just look at the collector's guild page on freiwillige arm shields and there is one original pictured...
cheers

[Peppe864]

Welcome to the forum mate, and sorry for that, it got all wrong, was reading and posting in multiple forums.....once again welcome......

And to add some info and straighten things out.

3 different versions of the shield excists, 2 of them are black and a third is red, made by Stockmann in Helsinki.

So first the Finnish SS-batallion had no lions, so they made an order to the finnish firm Stockmann and got the red lions that were made in Finland (some people also believe that they wore lions from finnish parade armbands, I think there excist some pictures of that).

So the red Stockmann lions excists and there is only one type.

Then as I have heard the Germans were not so happy about the Finnish red lions so a black version was made (all SS units were supposed to have the same colors and type of insignia, that is the reason I have heardIread) so this lion looks a bit in shape and size like the stockmann red lion, but it is black. I think this was german made, correct me if I am wrong here, a fellow can´t remeber everything (it´s all in the books)

Then came the Final and official version the Black german made lion (same as in Bessleins pics)

So conclusion is, 3 differnt lions no variations!

[Massimo F.]

Thank you Peppe for the warm welcome and the interesting explanation. I've seen the finnish hand made red backed one but not the first balck type. I own the german pattern one. I've seen lately, a couple of these shields on sale as originals from known dealers and I was curious to know if variations of the german type existed since I couldn't find anything about "variants"the in the books.
You're damn right about fakers I hate them too, that's why I jumped when called Mr. Faker LOL. Anyway they will never succed in replicating exact patterns and their lack of knowledge on wartime materials is our luck.
thanks all for your explanation.

By the way, I should introduce myself, I'm Max from Italy and I collect DAK and W-SS gear focusing on western europe freiwillige.
ciao

[Luc]

Besslein, thanks for the pictures, yes, now I see the difference!!

Peppe864, you must have had a very hard day.. your reactions an a new forummember were very..strange..! He just asked some normal questions..
Thanks for your input, and after looking at Bessleins pictures I agreed with him that mine are fakes.

Does the commemorative badges for the North front have been faked also ? Is this rare?

thanks