Dutch foreign Legion shield

[deejay]

I recieved this shield today from Germany and I am quite convinced it is a real patch but I need some help from you experts on it as I find this a odd one due to the narrow black edge on it.
It was made in germany in a fabrics shop and was taken home along with a pile of others of the same sort by a german veteran at the end of the war, claiming they where not distributed any longer.
The colours are as you see it by the way.
It measures 53 mm high and 41 wide, what do you know of this shield? Can anyone post a wartime pic of it?

Thanks in advance,
Deejay
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[Rene Chavez]

Hi Deejay,
The shield looks good, it seems that the black edge was cut. It has the correct color shown on the reverse.

Rene

I recieved this shield today from Germany and I am quite convinced it is a real patch but I need some help from you experts on it as I find this a odd one due to the narrow black edge on it.
It was made in germany in a fabrics shop and was taken home along with a pile of others of the same sort by a german veteran at the end of the war, claiming they where not distributed any longer.
The colours are as you see it by the way.
It measures 53 mm high and 41 wide, what do you know of this shield? Can anyone post a wartime pic of it?

Thanks in advance,
Deejay
<P>

[Dan T]

Sorry these are definately FAKE FAKE FAKE! I saw these about 4 years ago and easily picked on Epier. The seller is a "Heydrich" and he has the whole series. The french is the same design,construction etc but with the red,white and blue tricolour.It hasn't been cut down Rene. That is how it is made with the thin black border. You'll never get a period pic of one of these Deejay. Sorry for the bad news. Dan

[deejay]

Hey guys ..... call this professional advice?

I know third reich cloth items are tricky collectors items and are very easily and very much reproduced but there are some rules on deciding if something is authentic or not and these complie to all. Also do not only judge on a picture.

Your reason on saying;

Sorry these are definately FAKE FAKE FAKE! I saw these about 4 years ago and easily picked on Epier. The seller is a "Heydrich" and he has the whole series.

"

is not one of the rules!

Those could have been reproduced as you say but what proves this came from the same series? This pic shows a period shield on sale by a respected German militaria dealer in Hamburg with cut edges ... fake you say?
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The badge is cut, and has a very clearly visable (also on pics) cutedge. The orange/red colour is correct for this type of badge (see other threads and also look at other forums). The only thing that I am not comfortable with is the white colour, it has a very light pink shade to it.

I would like to hear some more opinions before having a bad day as I payed enough for it as a genuine item...
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DJ

[Rene Chavez]

Hi Deejay,
Here is my Dutch shield for comparison purposes. Notice the loose thread shown on my shield, which is normally found on all SS original shields. Like I said your shield looks good but if you place it close to an original you will see the differences. The orange color looks different then mine, perhaps is the image color. The reverse should have a light silver color.
In addition, Dan has been collecting shields for a long time and I trust the information that he provides.
The repro stuff coming out there is incredible. They are starting to reproduce correct style army BeVo shields, very scary.
Anyway as indicated here is my shield..... you be the judge.

Kind regards
Rene



I cannot comment on the Estonian shield but I know that they have been reproduced and are comming from the Baltic countries.

[Rene Chavez]

Thanks Dan,
They sure good, its good to know that it is reproduce with a short thin black border.
Your right about the shield, it is constructed like the SS French tricolore types. The color orange color also seems odd. Good catch.

Rene

Sorry these are definately FAKE FAKE FAKE! I saw these about 4 years ago and easily picked on Epier. The seller is a "Heydrich" and he has the whole series. The french is the same design,construction etc but with the red,white and blue tricolour.It hasn't been cut down Rene. That is how it is made with the thin black border. You'll never get a period pic of one of these Deejay. Sorry for the bad news. Dan

[Dan T]

Thanks for that Rene and nice original you show. Deejay, you posted your shield for opinions and mine is straightforward. The shield you show is a reproduction. In fact it's worse than that. It is a fantasy item ie a copy of something that was never made in the Third Reich era. You will never see aperiod pic of that one,believe me. The estonian you show is also fake. I bought one the same off ebay and compared it with other serious collectors. Something was fishy. Alot of these were turning up,unissued,same style etc. It now transpires that they are being made now in the Baltic states and people are cutting up old estonians flags to do them. Forget the vet stories,the reptuable German dealer you got it from etc. Just study the shield and nothing else. You even had intial doubts about it. I am sorry it's not real but at least you can try and get your money back.

[deejay]

Ok Dan and Rene,

I sent the guy a note with a return item wish, he agrees but nearly swears to it's authenticy with words like "how can you doubt? Do you think my grandmother stiched it or something? It is genuine WW2!" Anyway, if you say they are fake on this forum then many people believe the remarks made so it's not much of value to me as it makes this type of badge as good as worthless. So I am accepting your opinions and sending back the item. Thanks anyway!

I think I will go and collect "star wars movie shots" instead.....lol

"F_CK THE FORGERS, THEY MAKE ME PUKE!!!"

[deejay]

Sorry these are definately FAKE FAKE FAKE! I saw these about 4 years ago and easily picked on Epier. The seller is a "Heydrich" and he has the whole series. The french is the same design,construction etc but with the red,white and blue tricolour.It hasn't been cut down Rene. That is how it is made with the thin black border. You'll never get a period pic of one of these Deejay. Sorry for the bad news. Dan

Well Dan T,

Here we are again, tell me, how do you explain this then? As I said the man had a pile of these (they were taken from a factory at Vogtland). I have returned the shown one to his annoyance. In reply he announced he had cut it himself but he still had a few uncut ones like the two shown in the picture of which he sent in return also swearing they are pre 1945 manufactured. This does not fit in your conclusion in the quote does it? Take a good look at your own patch and you will probably see that it is the same one only dirtier.

oh and by the way, they seem to be of the right materials too!

Do you still call it a fantasy piece and thus fakes? Because I like them ... very much!!

[Rene Chavez]

Hi Deejay,

For some reason the original shield you posted seems different at least in the orange color and the way it is threaded. IMO the uncut shields looks more like the one I posted.
I'll be very interested to know Dan's opinions on it?

Rene Chavez
http://axis101.bizland.com

[Dan T]

DJ. If you like your shields and believe yet another "found in a factory" tale, then fine..carry on and enjoy your collection. I will spell it out again for you.These shields were not worn by any Dutch Volunteer in WW2.

[Dan T]

Also I do not subscribe to the black light test as a reliable means of authenticity. Can I suggest DJ that you invest in some quality books. The Dutch Legion and it's insignia are well documented. Read Foreign Legions of the Third Reich by Bender Vol 2 and Hitler's Germanic Legions by Mollo.
Both are out of print but show plenty of period pics of Shields and geniune examples from collections. The problem with your shield is that it isn't in there and I am astonished that you believe yours is real because the seller has more of them and they came from factory in the East! They probably did but not pre 1945. I am also surpised at your tone in your replies to me. Most collectors are gratefull when a item they show for opinions is identifed as a repro and they get a refund!

[Prosper Keating]

Reading through this thread, I can only say that when some people ask for opinions about something they have bought, what they really want is other people to agree with them that what they have bought is original. They become aggressive when told the truth. This is a textbook example. There is an established pattern:

New member posts pictures of obvious fake and asks for opinions.

Established collectors and specialists reply, giving New Member bad news.

New member's reaction is rude and aggressive: "Call this professional advice?" etc etc.

EC&S patiently explain their opinions.

New member backs down a bit and appears to pay attention.

Silence for a while.

New member comes back with fresh 'evidence' supporting his belief that what he has bought is original.

And it all begins again...

Deejay, Dan's advice to you is reliable. He is one of the few people whose opinions I trust when it comes to foreign volunteer armshields and related insignia. It is unfortunate that you bought a fake or, as Dan says, a fantasy piece but at least you were able to get a refund. You should follow Dan's advice and spend money on the two books he mentioned before rushing out and buying junk like the shield you showed here.

Prosper Keating

[deejay]

No offence and I am very sorry I hurt your feelings Dan.

As I am a "f.n.g." on this forum I will behave myself. Thanks for the good advice on those books.

DJ

[Tony Barto]

Deejay;

Keep the personal wisecracks to yourself. You asked for opinions and you got them. You don't like what you were told that's tough. Dan didn't attack you personally and do NOT attack him personally. I will NOT put up with that on this forum.