Allgemeine NCOs Visor

[wessel]

I've had this cap for a few years and always felt it was OK, but wondered why/how a PL RZM tag came to be in an SS cap. Either I'm wrong and the whole thing is a Frankenstein, or for some reason the tag has been added post-war, or it is a genuine anomaly.
Any thoughts would be welcome.

[wessel]

...sweat band is stamped 'Edel-Leder'

[wessel]

...Political Leaders RZM Visor tag.

[wessel]

...interior

[wessel]

I'm pretty certain the eagle is OK but the skull...? it is stamped M1/52 and RZM in circle. Is that a known fake?

[NTZ]

Can't explain the tag but the cap look good to me. Looks to be a very early piece. It the capband ribbed and just worn down or not ribbed?

[Anders S]

The skull is a wonderful Deschler skull. (Yes, there are fakes made with this marking but yours is good).

[SSgentleman]

I agree with Sir Anders, it is a good deschler skull.. nice cap btw

[DeMil]

Hi.

The visor is original and the same with the skull but the eagle does not look good.

Regards
Derek

[Robert H]

This tag is in there as it was the earliest used tag for the RZM regulations. Very nice cap, but for my taste and the tag I would assume early style skull and eagle on this cap. The eagle is getting a question mark.

[derek]

Wessel,
These early generic tags can be found in hats for a number organisations, including the SS. Its presence shouldn't make you wary of the cap. Does the underside of the sweatband have an ink stamped date?
Derek
(edit) Hmm, there's synchronicity Robert

[wessel]

Thanks for all your input. I was not aware that these early RZM tags were common to caps other than PLs.
The cap band is the same material as the top...a soft doeskin-type feel to it, but there is no date under the sweat band.
The cap itself is not very strong in construction (if it was an Army cap it could be a crusher!), but maybe that is because its an early one.

[sgstandard]

Allgemeine SS cap

If you go to page 2 of this forum under "Early Allgemeine SS Peaked Cap" posted by SGStandard, you can see my cap from the same era. Same type wool. Same bright orange sponge-like material behind the sweatband, etc. It appears there may be a faint outline above your skull where the larger earlier-style skull may have been. Look at this area and the inside lining closely to see if earlier insignia may have been applied. If not, it's possible they attached them without poking holes thru the lining. There's always the possibility the wearer changed insignia to the newer style to conform to regulation. If I had to bet, though, I'd say the skull, at least , was replaced post-war. If the wearer had replaced the skull, for being on the cap this long, it should be darker, as early Deschler skulls turn dark over time, even though your cap is in good condition. The skull just looks too new. No one likes the eagle. Eagles I don't know much about. If the skull was replaced post war, there's a good chance the eagle was too. The dilemma: If you replace the skull with an earlier style, the outline of the one that's on there will mostly be covered up. If you put an early-style small eagle on the cap, the holes may show from the current insignia. If it was me, and I saw the outline where an early skull used to be, I'd change out both pieces. The early political SS eagle is not very expensive, and the early-style totenkopf is reasonable. You'd then still have the SS eagle and skull for your collection. Win-win situation. The only gamble is that the stuff that's on there is original to the cap. I wouldn't bet on that, though. Beautiful cap regardless of what you do!! I enclosed pic of early tarnished Deschler skull.

[sgstandard]

SS Cap

P.S. Some knucklehead drilled holes in it!!!!

[Robert H]

In wessels cap are drilled holes inside or where?

Also another indication for this early 33-34 area cap are the side buttons as we know them from the early SS coffe can cap style. Sweatband looks also somehow marked inside from one of the above pictures.