Dutch collaboration Cuff titles

[Luc]

I bought a large and old collection with cuff titles. Some I know for sure are bad.. but they are still variations that I still don't know or don't find on the internet. Here are the Dutch ones, in my opinion only the Freiw. legion Niederlande (RZM down ) is a copy. I think the rest makes a good change to be original but local fabrikation.

Thanks for your input.

[Notebaert David]

Hallo Luc,

I fear No, no, no, Not good.

David Notebaert

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Hallo Luc,

I fear No, no, no, Not good.

David Notebaert

I fear yeah, yeah, jeah, all good ...except for the Freiw. legion Niederlande (RZM down )

Pieter.

[Luc]

David and Pieter

thanks for your input. David those are ofcourse not the textbook like we all want in our collection, but after studying them in detail I think they are all good, except, like Pieter also said, the Freiw Legion Niederlande (down RZM). I've got already several mails concerning those CT's...
I like to hear the opinions of our Dutchs friends..

[johannes post]

hello luc

the vendel dietschland is in my modest opinion oke '
in the mid 90's where a auction in the netherlands of a serie of dutch ss pieces sthraight from the owner (not a collecter a nsb 'er from utrecht)
with the same type of cuff.
the rest i don't know but the dutch made the cuff's also in the 40's themself but i think also in the 80's

regards johan

[Kuifje69]

Hi Luc,

If these cuffs are original I realyy do not know.

Germaanse SS in Nederland cuff is a fantasy item IMHO

But again I realyy do not know.

I hope the experts like Cees, Mario, Piet etc will jump in because I am very curious!!!

Best regards,

Rene

[Rene Chavez]

Hi Luc I like the first two Frw. Legion cufftitles. This style of embroidery is found on Dutch insignia. I also like the Dutch made RZM Legion cufftitle.

V/R
Rene Chavez
http://axis101.bizland.com

[Luc]

thanks for all comments. I found an old thread here on the forum concerning the museum in Scheveningen and those looks the same as mine. I bought this from an old man who collect from just after the war. He stopped collecting in the '80. The Dutch CT's he bought in the '50 at a local "jewish" fleamarket in Den Haag. Nobody was interested in this stuff. He got it almost for free. Concerning the Dutch alg SS CT's he told me that they produced this CT during the war but that they weren't allowed to use them because of the poor quality. The dress code of the general ss was very striked !
I had in my collection two flemish made CT's langemarck and Legion Flandern.. very ugly to see.. but original.. I have pictures where they worn this type of CT... but ofcourse textbook is always easier to judge..

[Seyffardt]

Hello Luc,

A late response on some of your NSB cuff titles. But maybe it’s still an issue of interest for you.

Lijfwacht mussert = fantasy I guess. It must also be “Lijfwacht v.d. Leider”. A variant is unlikely because of the very restricted size of this branch. The T is different written, but overall nice stitch work, it’s nice handmade! If it is a prototype is hard to tell, probably not.
A nice hypothesis could be that the Germans didn’t approved the name “Lijfwacht Mussert” because of the similarity with the name of the “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler” and turned it into “Lijfwacht v.d. Leider”. The last ones are produced into the Netherlands, but if they were ever worn on the uniforms is unknown. Remember that the dutch produced more simular things in larger numbers they never were allowed to used it (like the famous Mussert Kruis / Mussert cross for the dutch eastfront veterans).

Please correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve never heard of a Vendel called Dietschland? I know cuff titles with the name of some fallen WA members who died in service of the Weerafdeling (for example “Vendel Hendrik Koot”), but I still searching for some original pictures were they weir it on their uniforms. I remember me original picture of a WA man with such a Cuff title, but I'm not sure because I cand trace this picture anymore, some help should be fine. But again, very nice stitch work. If I was in the same position like you, I also buy them because they are very nice made.

With kind regards,
Johannes

[Winkelman]

For future reference - a small addition to correct that last post :

The " Lijfwacht Mussert " CT is perfectly legit , and an officers version at that ..!

It is merely the 2nd variant of a series of 3 , " Lijfwacht v. d. Leider " being the last and final version , not the only one . But since it was pictured in the illustrated " Distinctieven der Beweging " it is the best ( and to some only ) known version .

The correct order for these CT's timewise is : " Hou en Trou " , " Lijfwacht Mussert " , " Lijfwacht v.d. Leider ".

[Winkelman]

Since this picture seems to have found a firm & recurring place on the internet , I will now have to correct the info on the items shown here , for future reference >>

Germanische SS Niederlande
Germ. SS Nederland
Legioen Nederland

these horizontal striped cufftitles are all >>
certified 100% fantasy fabrication nonsense -
I know the very picture that LUC showed a long time ago very well , but many of the CT's shown in that picture were exactly that = early fakes / fantasies .. !

Frw. Legion Niederlande existed of course in RZM version , but the one shown here is a reproduction .

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

many thanks for pointing out the fakes on on dutch SS cuff titles.

What can you say about this selection of cuff titles ? Some are from the picture of Luc.



See You

Vince

[Winkelman]

Hello Vince ,
IMHO all are good except the first one .
It can be a bit of a grey area ;
The problem with a tailor-made item like this one is , that in the 1970's a Dutch firm did remakes of several ( NSB ) cufftitles that they had already done during the period . The typical piping and background material seems to be good Dutch make , could even be vintage , but the actual bullion used is different , far too shiny .
Not many reproductions were made at the time , and most are unknowingly in collections . I have seen some shown by the dealer who ordered them , and some blatant fantasy items exist as well ..

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hello,

many thanks for all your infos, for foreign collectors and historians it will be even harder to get the think right, so without the help of local collectors like you, it will be a real nightmare.

See You

Vince