Early SS ring

[hopsi]

Dear all
I just received this early ss-ring direct from private (an austrian family with military back ground since generations, who is close to us) for my collection. I wil try, to get some more informations about the owner. I would like to ask you, if that kind of a ring is known? Was this ring officially awarded, or was it probably usual during that time (1932) to present private purchased ss-rings between comrades.
Kindly state your opinions !!

[Wolf100]

On this site is a similar one without an inscription, but this is a fake site!!!

http://www.germaniainternational.com/ahnenerbe.html

[clevischi]

I have never seen this kind of model before...

[hopsi]

Thank's for your answers!
Does anybody have other opinions about my ring??
Regards, Stephan

[PHILBROWN]

i"d re, phrase that if i were you, here in england your statement may be misinterprited by the "gay" lot

[hopsi]

[colt45s]

Its a made up ring with SS on top to help sell it

[Capt. R]

If anyone has a ring like this one, I would like to buy it, even if it is a repro, as long as it is a good repro. Thanks. Please PM me with prices.

[hopsi]

Meanwhile I was able to do some reseach togehter with the family from where I got the ring. I have now additional informations, fotos... about this SS-Führer (and to whom this ring was given) and copies of his military files. Due to his political activities the pre-owner of this ring had to move 1932 from Austria to Munich, where he was serving as an SS-Untersturmführer within the "Österreichische Legion" and SS-Sammelstelle for some years.
He received this ring from his commanding officer and friend Hauptsturmführer Willy Schwarz. I was told about this by his daughter and could prove this story now with all documents I have in my hands.
Therefore for me this ring is without any doubt original and probably used as a private gift between comrades.

[Michael Fay]

Dear Hopsi,
I had one of these rings, or I should say I had a ring exactly like it without any inscription.
It was about the first thing I ever got to start my hobby of militaria collecting.
I have to tell you that no one I ever showed it to at militaria shows believed it to be authentic, in fact they all were positive this ring was a fake. A very big time dealer looked at it and had no faith in it at all.
It was a very hard lesson to learn: that web site dealers who seem so believable are selling fakes .
Until some extraordinary proof comes forward, I believe these rings to be fantasy rings. Until I see documented proof, I dont believe these rings are even fakes...as they may not ever have been made pre-45

I mean no disrespect and I do not enjoy saying this .

-Michael

[Gaspare]

Michael. Because you don't know about something and dealers you asked don't either doesn't make something a fantasy.
There is a infamous dealer that reproduces this ring very well. It has enough problems that someone skilled in knowing what to look for can tell its fake. You obviously didn't and the pieces very well of could have been a fake.



A ring from the 3rd Reich period is different than the copies that are made now. There are some techniques that the counterfeiter doesn't A either have the knowledge, or B doesn't have the proper time it takes to make the perfect copy. A professional jeweler with experience in jewelry from the period could distinguish from rings made then and rings made in the last 30 years or so all day long..

Without knowing anything about this ring,,or the owner ,or the provenance he has you have dismissed this piece as a fantasy. Irresponsible, and ill informed at best.
The ring is good known piece to ring collectors. There are a couple of examples that come with 100% German vet provenance, one I know of from has the original owner still owning ring bought during the early 1930s. There is a period photo of one in wear. It's good enough to see that the runes are not the standard runes but these as they appear on the ring here. I'm currently negotiating either a price for the photo or payment to use it in my book..10 years ago or so a honest dug example surfaced [I'm a firm believer that dug doesn't make a provenance ] but the materials and markings on it were correct.

Your avatar piece. No offence, and I do not enjoy saying it ,but, do you honestly believe its a 3rd Reich piece? I'd be willing to bet that most don't believe in it.. What provenance do you have other than a story? It's wood carved with tools. Any skilled wood carver could have made it anytime in the last 40 or 50 years..How about find your proof in that and then come back to proclaim other members pieces are fantasies.....

[Michael Fay]

Michael. Because you don't know about something and dealers you asked don't either doesn't make something a fantasy.
There is a infamous dealer that reproduces this ring very well. It has enough problems that someone skilled in knowing what to look for can tell its fake. You obviously didn't and the pieces very well of could have been a fake.



A ring from the 3rd Reich period is different than the copies that are made now. There are some techniques that the counterfeiter doesn't A either have the knowledge, or B doesn't have the proper time it takes to make the perfect copy. A professional jeweler with experience in jewelry from the period could distinguish from rings made then and rings made in the last 30 years or so all day long..

Without knowing anything about this ring,,or the owner ,or the provenance he has you have dismissed this piece as a fantasy. Irresponsible, and ill informed at best.
The ring is good known piece to ring collectors. There are a couple of examples that come with 100% German vet provenance, one I know of from has the original owner still owning ring bought during the early 1930s. There is a period photo of one in wear. It's good enough to see that the runes are not the standard runes but these as they appear on the ring here. I'm currently negotiating either a price for the photo or payment to use it in my book..10 years ago or so a honest dug example surfaced [I'm a firm believer that dug doesn't make a provenance ] but the materials and markings on it were correct.

Your avatar piece. No offence, and I do not enjoy saying it ,but, do you honestly believe its a 3rd Reich piece? I'd be willing to bet that most don't believe in it.. What provenance do you have other than a story? It's wood carved with tools. Any skilled wood carver could have made it anytime in the last 40 or 50 years..How about find your proof in that and then come back to proclaim other members pieces are fantasies.....

Gaspare,
As i have told others privately,I consider you to be the expert on rings, and what ever you say, I will happily concede to and respect.

As I said, in my entry, that is what I thought from the info and advice culled up to the time I stated that I must consider it a fantasy ring until some period documentation as no one has ever defended the ring style that I could find. I was looking because I had a ring like this. But now that you have mentioned somthing positive on this ring type, I am now better educated, and very glad for it,, not to mention for the owner of the ring in question.
As for my piece, I put up here on WAF to be critiqued already, for all comers to say whatever they may, good or bad. You were welcome to add any comments on it there and still can, please do...as I would welcome the possible new info that it may elicit from another.
After all I want to learn more and it seems like if I had not said what I said, perhaps you ,who I respect, would not have responded to this thread with this positive information ?
Sincerely, Michael

re-reading this, I also realise I said what I said to elicit some photos or documentation like an old newspaper advert because I want to see some and this is also what WAF can be a good source for.

[Gaspare]

M. ,,I thank you for your kind words,,but,I'm no expert,,none of us are. We were not there when the stuff was made and there is very few of us that know the people that actually made the pieces.Nor many of us with engineers drawings etc... Period photos and ads are but a few on certain items, jewelry pieces less than a handful..

Years ago I had a SS runes tab with metal runes. Just about everyone thought them fantasy. No other trustful examples, no period photos in wear, the experts didn't have one.. If you had them you got beat.. Now after the fall of the USSR its all a different story.

I really doubt your ring had real enamel and the same markings and construction method as Hopi's. The current copies do not, never did. [but I bet they soon will] Because I guess no one cared or studied rings back then your ring was thought and deemed a fake,,and maybe it was.

Mike,I gotta apologize,,because I really like your piece and think its very interesting. You'll never have a provenance for it unless a photo surfaces,,and yet you bought it!. If I remember correctly no one cut it down. And, that's my point,,Hopi's ring was called a fantasy because you had one way back when and because no one knew what they were looking at they called it a fake/fantasy..And years later,with bad photos and not knowing anything about the ring or his provenance this 'ruling' was again put out there!

To hell with all this!, lets have some fun again in this hobby.If you really like something buy it, enjoy it, and don't worry what it's worth or authentic.. If you want investments or certainalities buy sealed gold coins, or pork bellies with certificates of authenticity,, or beanie babies!

[Capt. R]

Period pic in wear

Gaspare
You mentioned that a period photo of this part. ring in wear exists. Can you please post it along with the full page advert. which it appears on. I like this ring and would like to have these 2 items to document the ring.

I am interested in purchasing your book when completed. Can you tell us when it is scheduled for release/sale?
Thanks

[Gaspare]

Cap,, I am hoping to finish it by February. Then it goes to the publisher and then how ever long he will take,,probably sometime mid to late 09..

I did not state there is a period advertisement for the ring. I have though seen one a few years ago in the hands of the German Vet that originally bought it,, and, I've seen a period photo of the ring in wear from a different party. You can not make out the complete ring. But, you can see that the runes are like those on the ring that started this topic. Problem is I do not own the photo. I am again trying to negotiate with the owner to purchase it or I'd even pay for usage of it...

If you like this pattern ring but worried it is a fantasy ring,,Check out Hopsi's lead photo of the markings in the band. The copies made by the infamous dealer with all the rings does NOT have the same markings,,you should also read again his post # 9..I've seen better photos of Hopsi's ring,,I believe it to be good even without his provenance. His documents and research is the icing on the cake for his particular ring for me at least.. There are other examples of this ring with similar good provenances..

There are 100's of different private purchase ring patterns. There are only a handful of period advertisements and 'in wear' photos,,,that doesn't mean the rest are fantasy pieces!. We must go by provenance, experience, construction method, materials used, design, and common sense to try and authenticate them..