"Pink" smock or not?

[salt*creek]

Phild says there were almost 4,000 made when he was an SS officer working at the factory in some foreign land still unknown. Check your math...

[juvatwad]

How is that "speculation", it is basic Cost Accounting. If you take any product off any production line, you can break it down into the components of

1/ labour processes/ time

2/ direct variable cost of component parts/ material used

3/ Overhead - fixed & variable, indirect & direct.

The only speculation would be the number made i.e. 500 verses 2000 verses 5000 ?

Given what these were sold for in 1980-81.

Chris

So it is speculation..... How much did an original smock go for in 1980? Was it significantly more than for what Floch sold these pinks?

[kammo man]

There were so many of these around back in the 80's, we all used them to reenact! I dug up a couple old photos.

Fun shots indeed.
Funny we had the same idea to play in them.

The green side is horrible but the brown is slightly better.

It makes me smile that a handful of guys think they are real.

There is hope in the tooth fairy after all.

[jacquesf]

If there is a scientific approach to be taken with these. With all these referring to research, analysis , peer review and what not being thrown around, it would be an good idea to get an understanding of the various participants' knowledge and experience in ss camo and collecting.

Maybe we can can get a short cv summary, background, stating the individual background, experience and what else, that validate his expertise ,contribution and the level there of. It is done with all scientific research and specialist witness in court. Why should it not be relevant here?

[kammo man]

I have said my piece.
I would like to hear others.

[RobertE]

P ,
You mentioned the were not German made with German ingredients.
So why are we still debating this.
Lets move it to the International section where it belongs.
Cuz its Not SS MADE in AN SS FACTORY by a long shot.

owen

Correct. Not GERMAN made in a GERMAN factory, but worn by the SS in the war.

s/f Robert

[nutmeg]

If there is a scientific approach to be taken with these. With all these referring to research, analysis , peer review and what not being thrown around, it would be an good idea to get an understanding of the various participants' knowledge and experience in ss camo and collecting.

Maybe we can can get a short cv summary, background, stating the individual background, experience and what else, that validate his expertise ,contribution and the level there of. It is done with all scientific research and specialist witness in court. Why should it not be relevant here?

Sorry, not rising for the bait......

[RobertE]

That's why they did not or could not sew straight.

If they were made is a forced labor environment. If they were not, then the sewing would be different.

Are you saying you can account for sewing techniques for enough camo smocks to outfit almost one million men? I think it's reasonable to say that it's very possible that a company made the birch smocks under discussion.

s/f Robert

[Disco Partisan]

I just called and spoke with BELARUSFILM directly with the Costume-inventory -wardrobe department.
They said:
"MINSK-FILM" is definitely fake because this name has never existed and never been used. They have never seen anything with the "Minsk-film" on it in their inventory. They said if something is marked - it is Always marked with the "BELARUSFILM" name in it.

I also called and spoke with the Museum of the Belarusian Cinema History in Minsk.
They have never seen anything with the "Minsk-film" on it.

[brooksbz]

If they were made is a forced labor environment. If they were not, then the sewing would be different.

Are you saying you can account for sewing techniques for enough camo smocks to outfit almost one million men? I think it's reasonable to say that it's very possible that a company made the birch smocks under discussion.

s/f Robert

I covered the quality issue in the bottom of post #2152. Factory and KZ sewing quality degraded as the war progressed. I agree, the smocks under discussion were more likely made in a garment factory not in the SS KZ system.

[RobertE]

I just called and spoke with BELARUSFILM directly with the Costume-inventory -wardrobe department.
They said:
"MINSK-FILM" is definitely fake because this name has never existed and never been used. They have never seen anything with the "Minsk-film" on it in their inventory. They said if something is marked - it is Always marked with the "BELARUSFILM" name in it.

I also called and spoke with the Museum of the Belarusian Cinema History in Minsk.
They have never seen anything with the "Minsk-film" on it.

That's an interesting conversation, thanks for reaching out to them and it sounds like you were talking to the right department. Were they familiar with the older markings used right after the war? Since BELARUSFILM came from Leningrad, with a big branch in Moscow, did they have ANY markings besides BELARUSFILM?

Good work on contacting them directly.

s/f Robert

[RobertE]

I covered the quality issue in the bottom of post #2152. Factory and KZ sewing quality degraded as the war progressed. I agree, the smocks under discussion were more likely made in a garment factory not in the SS KZ system.

Yes, I read the post and it jives with everything I've read about the KZ production enterprises. Thanks.

s/f Robert

[90th Light]

I just called and spoke with BELARUSFILM directly with the Costume-inventory -wardrobe department.
They said:
"MINSK-FILM" is definitely fake because this name has never existed and never been used. They have never seen anything with the "Minsk-film" on it in their inventory. They said if something is marked - it is Always marked with the "BELARUSFILM" name in it.

I also called and spoke with the Museum of the Belarusian Cinema History in Minsk.
They have never seen anything with the "Minsk-film" on it.

Thanks DP for taking the time to do that. The following information that I have found out is very heavy. Is there any chance they might know what happen in the year 1947 ?



"The period between 1948 and 1953 is designated the "black years" for Soviet Jewry. Campaigns against so-called Jewish-bourgeois nationalism and "rootless cosmopolitanism" were felt particularly in the cultural realm. In January 1948, on Stalin's order, Salomon }{\f16\fs24\cf2 Michoels, First Director of the Moscow Jewish Theater, and Chairman of the Jewish Antifascist Committee of the USSR, was secretly murdered during his visit in Minsk. Michoels was buried in Moscow with great honors, but already in fall 1948, he was denounced as a Jewish nationalist. At the same time, the Jewish Antifascist Committee was dissolved, its members arrested and tried. Yiddish, the last legal form of Jewish life, was prohibited.

Anti-Jewish agitation was supported through the decisions of the 19th congress of the Communist Party of the Republic in February 1949. In consequence, all Jewish institutions and periodicals, Yiddish publishers and artists' unions were dissolved. The State Academy Theater for Opera and Ballet of the BSSR was accused of propagating bourgeois morality. Victims of this campaign were, among others, Konstantin Muler (First Ballet Master), Lev Litvinov (First Director of the Belarussian Janka Kupala Academy Theater), folklorist Lev Barag, literary critic Jakov Gerzovich, as well as theater critic Michail Model. The Belarussian State Jewish Theater, BelGOSET (Belorusskii Gossudarstvennii Ievreiskii Teatr), was declared the center for Jewish nationalism and cosmopolitanism. Its First Director, Michail Rafalskii, founder and soul of the theater, was arrested and convicted. He died in prison. The theater itself was closed March 1949 on order of the Counsel of Ministers of the BSSR (41).

The art of film was not spared anti-Jewish measures. It had been intended for the role of strengthening Soviet patriotism, unveiling the meaninglessness of bourgeois life styles, and unmasking the aggressive tendencies of Imperialism. Jews were accused of wanting to exercise an "alien" Western influence on views, inimical to these ends. In late 1947 the Minister for Cinematography of the BSSR, Nikolai Sadkovich, lodged complaints with the Central Committee of the CPB, according to which, a series of former Jewish employees at MINSKFILM later BELARUSFILM MINSK was hindering the employment of Belarussian national cadres. He asked that Belarussian cinematography be cleansed of so-called malingerers and charlatans, the firing of directors like Natan Lyubo****s, Iosif Shulman, Nikolai Gastelowitz and Iosef Vainerowitz, and their replacement with politically immaculate personnel. Traditionally, there had been many Jews working at BELARUSFILM MINSK as well as at other film studios in the country, like MOSFILM, LENFILM, DOVZHENKO or GORKII-Studio. To push out the Jews, Belarussians were hired without regard to their qualifications. Belarussian artists were preferred over Jewish artists, background music was written only by Belarussian composers like Yevgenii Tikozkii or Anatolii Bogatirev. Scripts and texts for documentaries were from then on almost all exclusively by Belarussian writers like Vyasheslav Polesskii, Pimen Panchenko, Konstantin Gubarevich, Pavel Kovalev or Makar Poseldovich. Since primarily Belarussian synchronized editions were produced, the level of Belarussian film sank rapidly."



It would appear from this that there was ethnic cleansing going on at "BELARUSFILM MINSK" in 1947. Could the name "Minsk-Film" have existed in the years 1946 to 47 and been removed from the record as a result of this ?

What films were made in 1946 at BELARUSFILM MINSK, may be they show the name Minsk-Film which fell quickly from grace because of the Jewish connection and thus was removed from the studio. Is the name "BELARUSFILM MINSK", the CCCP restamping its communist nationalist mark back on that film company ?

There seems to be a lot here that we do not know,

Chris

[David Fettes]

So to we have a problem (or not) now.

Was Minskfilm removed from the records due to anti-Jewish measures?

If the stamp is fake where does that leave the smock in question. Other 100% original SS items have the same stamp. Also what are the green and red stamps?

Does it really say Minskfilm or could it be (long shot I know) another company from one of the smaller states where information is even rarer?

[NZMark]

Excellent Chris,
So there definitely was a Minsk-Film studio in 1947.
Interesting.
Mark