"Pink" smock or not?

[phild]

From post #1693

I suppose the point I am trying to make it is:- If there are original camo items that miss parts of the pattern out, it is beyond the realms of possibility that an SS pattern exists that has a small bit added?
.

David, I think that it is established with most collectors, thanks to the Norwegian made SS parkas that Tom posted, that patterns were extended during the war to fit larger rollers and by the same logic may also have been reduced to fit smaller ones.

In the case of the Norwegian parkas they made up the additional space needed by copying or using a section of the pattern from another area of the pattern.

In the case of the Birch smocks they created a new design to extend the pattern. This amounted to only a few inches (I think many years ago I measured it about 6-7 inches...but am not sure that I recall exactly) so it is pretty small and not that obvious unless you lay it beside a standard German OL example and line both up.

My feeling is that either technique could have been used wartime (or post war) to adapt the pattern to larger roller. It would certainly be safer if one was trying to fake these to reuse a section of design rather to create a new one.

[Palmenmuster]

OK, Let's put this to the test.
Owen - find for me a 'Pink' smock in good condition and sell it to me for the $500 you think these are worth. I'll pay you immediately I'm happy with the condition etc. No BS - straight cash.
Not from a dealer, (that's not 'fair' on you) but from a fellow collector who also thinks these are worth no more than the figure you have mentioned on multiple occasions.
Let's see how many people you know have NO doubt in their minds regarding the smock's originality....
There's a challenge for you. Deal?
In fact - I'll open this up to any collector who has one sitting there. Anyone, who has NO doubt that these are fakes, no little doubt that thy just might, MIGHT be original. Let me relieve you of that burden.....After all - you won't lose out - these are fake's after all, and cannot possibly be worth more than Owen has stated.
Come on - don't be shy, I await the pm's
Mark

I will take the rest if NZ get a lot of offers, send me a PM
Tom

[NZMark]

Come on Owen - Back up your claims - strap a pair on and put your convictions into action!
Balls in your court. Put up or shut up, it's as easy as that.
Mark
NZ

[NZMark]

Sounds good, Tom - I imagine with all Owen's connections we'll be flooded with folks wanting to off-load their fake smocks - what fools we'll be buying these 'fakes' as Owen claims, for the $500 he says they are worth. Well, we'll see, won't we?
I'll send you a pm with a list of sellers contacts when they come through...
Mark

[Bob Hritz]

Sounds good, Tom - I imagine with all Owen's connections we'll be flooded with folks wanting to off-load their fake smocks - what fools we'll be buying these 'fakes' as Owen claims, for the $500 he says they are worth. Well, we'll see, won't we?
I'll send you a pm with a list of sellers contacts when they come through...
Mark

Put me on the list for one with the a Russian markingas in the pocket. I did n other want one, back then, and am now sorry I did not buy a marked skock. Heck, for $500.00, I would be in the market for several more.

Bob Hritz

[judas]

I have no dog in this fight , but was passed this bit of info . true i do not know


These came from Berman & Nathan, costumers in London in the 1980's. They are NOT original

[Glenn McInnes]

Pink pink pink smock

Smock of pink

Pink pink pink

Just enough to make the fakers wink

I have often thought that "Regimentals" out of London may have had something to do with the Pinky's...God knows I have seen enough fakes emerge from this outfit complete with bogus soviet capture/movie studio stamps.

I wonder if Floch had any dealing with them back then...Maybe they were sold to him as being found in Czech.



Glenn

[90th Light]

I have no dog in this fight , but was passed this bit of info . true i do not know

These came from Berman & Nathan, costumers in London in the 1980's. They are NOT original

Judas, have you been asleep like “Rip Van Winkle" through this one.

We laid that myth to rest 50 pages and 1000 posts ago.

Have a read, absolutely no basis/ proof/ evidence what so ever to back it up,

Chris

[90th Light]

I have often thought that "Regimentals" out of London may have had something to do with the Pinky's...God knows I have seen enough fakes emerge from this outfit complete with bogus soviet capture/movie studio stamps.

I wonder if Floch had any dealing with them back then.

Glenn

Hello Glenn,

did you keep any images of the "bogus" USSR stamps on file that Regimental's or anyone else has applied to items ?

I am not trying to put you on the spot, I would be interested to see bad Russian capture stamps that we know for sure are bad and perhaps the basis of why they are bad. After all that has gone down on this thread, I now realise, this is a study needing a thread devoted to that subject in its own right,

Chris

[Killerbee]

Put me on the list for one with the a Russian markingas in the pocket. I did n other want one, back then, and am now sorry I did not buy a marked skock. Heck, for $500.00, I would be in the market for several more.

Bob Hritz

Ditto... I want one for $500.. put me on that list too.

Jim

PS... Can we all see where the wind is changing direction? I hope it is fake until I get my hands on one..

[NickG]

I have no dog in this fight , but was passed this bit of info . true i do not know

These came from Berman & Nathan, costumers in London in the 1980's. They are NOT original

No that's not correct...
B & N might have ended up with some of this inventory after it was smuggled West, who knows? but they did not have these made...that's just mis-information...and this costumier has a rat invested storage room if they were the originators? I think not and the smocks are too well made for theatrical purposes in my view...
and besides all of this, Johannes Floch already admitted that he was the discoverer and importer of this hoard when it was smuggled out of East Block!

B & N btw was acquired by its rival "Angels" in London who purchased their entire inventory. The new owners can be visited...a "behind the scenes tour"...
http://www.angels.uk.com/

Here's a Youtube clip on B & N, includes some TR military wardrobe!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFvWkHEAMPo

I know Johannes Floch very well. We have been friends for 50 years and I value his friendship very dearly. If my memory serves me, I recall he told me he found them in Czechoslovakia. I have two of them and wanted those that did not have all those 'weird' stamps on the pockets. Those with the stamps were sold for less, as were those that were damaged from rodent chews and urine damage. All had to be clean to get them into Austria. I do not know the method of cleaning, but will ask him in my letter.
Bob Hritz

What Bob wrote!

[kammo man]

I have often thought that "Regimentals" out of London may have had something to do with the Pinky's...God knows I have seen enough fakes emerge from this outfit complete with bogus soviet capture/movie studio stamps.



I wonder if Floch had any dealing with them back then.







Glenn

We all know there was a little family of goblins making everything in the basement from CSA items to RAF items
The Pinks were no doubt part of the swindle.
There was good things in there also

I wish I had my old catalogues as I had many and bought loads over the years

When I moved to London I was within walking distance and went in on a Saturday after the islington military market

There was always a pink in stock which in itself was grounds for suspicion

[90th Light]

Put me on the list for one with the a Russian markingas in the pocket. I did n other want one, back then, and am now sorry I did not buy a marked skock. Heck, for $500.00, I would be in the market for several more.

Bob Hritz

I came so close to buying what would have been my second one with stamps in 2002 for approx US$300 + or - it is not funny.

Time now, for regret and reflection on the opportunity cost of a decision not to buy

Chris

[judas]

Judas, have you been asleep like “Rip Van Winkle" through this one.

We laid that myth to rest 50 pages and 1000 posts ago.

Have a read, absolutely no basis/ proof/ evidence what so ever to back it up,

Chris

All you have offered is expletives . i said i had no dog in this fight and just passed on a bit of info . about london being the source thats , it but you have to make a smart ass sarcasm remark . make you feel better !

I have seen your wears that you porn off to a certain dealer , like the panzer assault badge ! so dont go casting stones at me ,

[salt*creek]

You saved yourself $300