"Pink" smock or not?

[Patty D]

Let's keep it on track.

Owen you seem like a staunch opposer of these, yet throughout (from what I've seen/read) you are yet to provide any clear-cut answers or facts to disprove them, just resorting to small off-the-cuff spats with other members - in an attempt to deflect or maybe even close the thread?? We get you know your stuff on SS uniforms so hopefully it's not a case of being too 'proud' to admit you might be wrong on these... but I would appreciate it if you give your thoughts on the following.

You mention about Floch being a dealer of fakes, yes that is well acknowledged, but apparently those were sold as such. Correct? Do you dispute his other apparent hoard find items originality? By the sounds of things he sold masses of ORIGINAL gear and surely must have been in the prime position to acquire the latest finds - i.e these smocks (and his other finds).

Regarding the stamps in particular what is YOUR reasoning/idea behind them being there? We know they aren't there to deceive - why? Well:

Not ALL smocks are stamped - why? if that was meant to make them "genuine"?
Stamps defaced/washed/cut out in many examples - why do that?
Their presence devalued the items at the time - I don't need to explain that one...
Found in 3 "textbook" (horrible term) original SS camo garments - including a pair of dot trousers

Many thanks

[kammo man]

I do not want the thread closed.


Lets get that clear.

To close a thread ends the fun.


The simple fact that the stamps are found in the jackets is no problem to me.
If the items were used in a movie or school play etc and then appeared in the west is quite a mystery.

However they are not SS manufactured of WW2 origin.

The dealer sure did find real things sadly not these.

Does that answer your question?

[Bob Hritz]

]

He also sold the bad TUX badges.

A dealer like him will mix in the bad with the good.


Its SOP.


Back to normal Pinks talking now.

Ownen,

Johannes Flock had nothing to do with fake tuxedo badges. Get your facts straight.

Bob Hritz

[Patty D]

However they are not SS manufactured of WW2 origin.

The dealer sure did find real things sadly not these.

Does that answer your question?

Not really. It's this stating of your personal opinion as if it's a fact that's not helping or working here. Please explain/show us the evidence that you must have to say you KNOW (?) they are not of WW2 origin. Thanks

[kammo man]

Ah one more thing.

The stamps found in the real SS cammo pieces from the same dealer are part of the smoke screen by adding some real with loads of bad.

Remember the dark ages of this hobby were the 1970s and 80s when stuff could be filtered into many people and sold through scant paper catalogues that we all waited for !!!
Some even had pictures like Regimentals.
The wide distribution of the Pinks into many collections caused many people to get burnt.
Some advanced guys slowly realized they were bad......
Some guys believe.

However the garment itself does not hold up to the test of time.

[kammo man]

Not really. It's this stating of your personal opinion as if it's a fact that's not helping or working here. Please explain/show us the evidence that you must have to say you KNOW (?) they are not of WW2 origin. Thanks

Can you show me your evidence that they are real SS manufactured WW2 items ?

[kammo man]

]



Ownen,

Johannes Flock had nothing to do with fake tuxedo badges. Get your facts straight.

Bob Hritz

Thats right it was Winkler.
So many of these guys sell bad stuff its hard to keep all their names in the correct faker box.

[jacquesf]

]



Ownen,

Johannes Flock had nothing to do with fake tuxedo badges. Get your facts straight.

Bob Hritz

I don't think he is referring to Floch. J

[Patty D]

Can you show me your evidence that they are real SS manufactured WW2 items ?

Yet again making an off-the-cuff remark without anything to back it up... Proved my point to a tee with that one. Did I state they were original?? No. You stated they aren't, so why's that??

I won't hold my breath for a response.

[kammo man]

I was.
I mixed up my dealer name.

[RobertE]

Ah one more thing.

The stamps found in the real SS cammo pieces from the same dealer are part of the smoke screen by adding some real with loads of bad.

Remember the dark ages of this hobby were the 1970s and 80s when stuff could be filtered into many people and sold through scant paper catalogues that we all waited for !!!
Some even had pictures like Regimentals.
The wide distribution of the Pinks into many collections caused many people to get burnt.
Some advanced guys slowly realized they were bad......
Some guys believe.

However the garment itself does not hold up to the test of time.

This entire entry is opinion. There is not a single fact presented in this response.

I recall when you were challenged to pick the "bad " hbt from a line-up of good close-ups, you couldn't. You didn't even venture a guess, and claimed the pictures were too bad to make a determination more recently.

Yet you can tell the smock is bad from even more distant, general photos.

There had been detailed, close-up analysis of the birch smocks, from colors to fabrics, and some decent research. Yet you have failed to produce a single bit of similarly details analysis.

I think you are out of tricks, and are resorting to constant repeats of "it's simple" and citing the fun of the game, as though the wise sage is mildly entertained.

If you have something of substance, not would be a good time to break it out.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

Robert

The HB pics were terrible.

Being out of tricks boarders on a personal insult.

I take offense to that Sir.

owen

[kammo man]

Yet again making an off-the-cuff remark without anything to back it up... Proved my point to a tee with that one. Did I state they were original?? No. You stated they aren't, so why's that??

I won't hold my breath for a response.

You are clearly internet Trolling me.
I won't rise to the bait.

owen

[Felix]

Gents, chill a bit... All sides please!

It would be sad to have such an important thread locked now.

We have more than 100 000 views and many many well written and researched responses....

Lets continue

Cheers
//Felix

[kammo man]

Phild, Pete, Chris - Just pure speculation on my part, probably misplaced, and perhaps I shouldn't even have brought it up. I haven't spoken to Pieter at all since I went back completely through this thread and noticed those comments. I just know that his saying these weren't fake, just not German, is something (knowing him and his collection)(the "proof is in the pudding") I would have to take very seriously. The whole idea of these being made as some sort of colossal
and complex fraud just doesn't hang together to me. Too much time and investment for too little return. Just my feeling (which I'm sure will result in insults being aimed in my direction).

Ah the FRENCH angle.