"Pink" smock or not?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

to date NO PROOF exist that those smocks are period.

No link was ever made between the smocks in the russian theatre company and all the smocks with russian stamps.

I would be very interested to know how you can prove us that
PINK SMOCK + RUSSIAN STAMPS = PERIOD WAR SMOCK

Can you also prove us that the russian stamps are legit in a way or another ?

The best way to "identify" and "authentificate" something is to PIMP it with a stamp. This is the basic way used by fakers...

In another hand, many collectors confirmed that the pink smocks were produced by an english company in the 80's.

See You

Vince

[phild]

Hi,

to date NO PROOF exist that those smocks are period.

No link was ever made between the smocks in the russian theatre company and all the smocks with russian stamps.

I would be very interested to know how you can prove us that
PINK SMOCK + RUSSIAN STAMPS = PERIOD WAR SMOCK

Can you also prove us that the russian stamps are legit in a way or another ?

The best way to "identify" and "authentificate" something is to PIMP it with a stamp. This is the basic way used by fakers...

In another hand, many collectors confirmed that the pink smocks were produced by an english company in the 80's.

See You

Vince

This "discussion" has become so foolish and so much non-sense that it is pointless. I can take every statement made above and apply it to any 3rd Reich item with just as much validity as they apply to these smocks. Nothing can be PROVEN if you want to insist on crazy standards. Everything is embellished and pimped and made up and not traceable to a time period and anything else you want to suggest. WWII did not occur because you can not PROVE that it did so WWII is made up........what scholars we have become!

Collectors LIED about the English prop company connection and it was shown as such on this forum......then promptly ignored.

The stamps have been proven. The Smocks have been proven, at least back to the 50s or earlier. Now explain that! The stampings meaning is largely known it both USSR defense dept. captured property and to Moscow museum system.

Read the posts!

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

please show us the "proof" that collectors lied about the English prop company, i'm don't remember seeing anything here about that.

Also please show us ANY PROOF (any) that the pink smocks are pre-1945.

And also please show us any proof that the russian stamps are legit.

You are clearly trying to have those pink smocks confirmed as good (this is your own agenda, maybe due to the fact that you have one yoursel), but in all the case no period proof exist that those smocks are legit.

Like i said previously believers have to PROVE that they are right.
Like in science. We are not talking about angel here.
Don't be a sophist with your pretty bad example of "we can't prove that WWII" happened.

See You

Vince

[RobertE]

Well said, Phild. These points were all made in the body of this thread; don't just jump in at the end without having read what others have methodically discussed.

Other than a group of collectors on this forum dismissing them for reasons still unclear to me, there is nothing to indicate these are replica.

s/f Robert

[Felix]

I have followed this debate with great interest since about 10 years back. Some years ago I felt one key to the mystery was the stamp and what it looked like. It took quite many years before someone could actually post a real stamp, from a pink smock, and after then the hunt started to find out about if there were others stamps like this and what they actually represented and were. It was more or less a guessing game until I by accident spotted the same exact stamps on a 100 % sure original on the ruptured duck web site and posted it here. With that said it was a mere piece in the large puzzle which so many has contributed with, and shared knowledge to form. Many of you have done a great job to get to this point. But again, part of the key evidence was the stamps.

Those new or for those who have not followed the topic and done your studies it is easy to dismiss as a fake or repro. However there is much more to it. There are some facts that cant be denied. What were unknown stamps doing on smocks before the iron curtian fell? I feel the times are gon when collectors easily could wipe it of as fakes simply because they are not matching the rest of the accepted original camo smocks. Im not a collector you can take for a ride with easy argument - some might know this - and I do follow this topic and I am openminded and does not trash "pink" smocks until real hard core evidence has come foreward. On the opposite there is a chance and it is well worth for further future openminded investigations.

I wish more collectors dared to share their info and knowledge. Some was there when Floch had these for sale and some people also knew this person well enough to weigh in with facts.

Cheers, Felix

[90th Light]

I wish more collectors dared to share their info and knowledge. Some was there when Floch had these for sale and some people also knew this person well enough to weigh in with facts.

Cheers, Felix

If I have my facts straight, Bob Hritz had a sleeve off a Pink Smock from one of the bales that had been rodent damaged. He knew and dealt with Floch at the time these were found in the former Eastern Bloc. My understanding is that he has always considered these worth getting.

He is probably worn down by the on-going debate but may be he might comment and confirm if I am right or wrong on his experience/ feelings about them,

Chris

[Vilja]

Just my two cents after collecting TR memorabilia for almost 50 years now.

I have owned three "pink smocks" during that 50 year period, one was well worn with cyrillic stampings on one of the pockets, one that was slightly misprinted and one very close to being mint.

I also owned many vehicle ID flags with the balken cross that I knew at the time were original and I have owned many original MP38/40 pouches and I would never own a clg marked pouch in any condition and actually sold a mint green set for $70.00 on this site as I believe that they are not original using the same logic others use for dismissing the "pink smocks".

But what do I know…… like I said, just my two cents!

Thanks for your time,

Vilja

[90th Light]

Just my two cents after collecting TR memorabilia for almost 50 years now.

I have owned three "pink smocks" during that 50 year period, one was well worn with cyrillic stampings on one of the pockets, one that was slightly misprinted and one very close to being mint.

I also owned many vehicle ID flags with the balken cross that I knew at the time were original and I have owned many original MP38/40 pouches and I would never own a clg marked pouch in any condition and actually sold a mint green set for $70.00 on this site as I believe that they are not original using the same logic others use for dismissing the "pink smocks".

But what do I know…… like I said, just my two cents!

Thanks for your time,

Vilja

With all due respect Vilja,

you are comparing apples with oranges and oranges with "pink" grapefruit.

How many examples do you want of items that I bought as bad or suspect over equally a 50 year period, that turned out to be good. In some cases, simply because a period photo of such an items in use before May 1945 was finally found, or a respected collector established beyond doubt a direct veteran connection.

We may not have a photo of the "Pink Smock" yet but we have a USSR stamp on the pocket that dates them as entering Russian museum property/ storage in the period 1947-49 .

So when were they made

Early 1947, year 1946, year 1945, year 1944 or some time in 1943 but 1942 being a stretch too far ?

Chris

[SJP]

$500.00 piece.......always have been always will be ( imho)
Cheers Steve

[Vilja]

With all due respect Vilja,

you are comparing apples with oranges and oranges with "pink" grapefruit.

How many examples do you want of items that I bought as bad or suspect over equally a 50 year period, that turned out to be good. In some cases, simply because a period photo of such an items in use before May 1945 was finally found, or a respected collector established beyond doubt a direct veteran connection.

We may not have a photo of the "Pink Smock" yet but we have a USSR stamp on the pocket that dates them as entering Russian museum property/ storage in the period 1947-49 .

So when were they made

Early 1947, year 1946, year 1945, year 1944 or some time in 1943 but 1942 being a stretch too far ?

Chris

Chris,
I have no problem with what you are saying and I do not offend easily....if at all.

I am simply stating a fact about logic and how one comes to a conclusion.
I used the clg pouches as an example as I did with the vehicle ID flag.
The mint unissued clg MP38/40 pouches are considered original, yet the pink smocks are not?
Both were basically discovered by the same means…do a search on these mint pouches (and smocks) and you will see where I am coming from.

I will buy a balken cross vehicle ID flag.
I will never buy a mint clg marked pouch.
I would not buy another "pink smock" knowing that I will not be able to re-sell as an original so there is no point in a pink smock purchase for investment purposes.
I did have a stronger sense that the ID flag was original at the time and I do remember a period picture somewhere in my reference material.
(I am not sure if someone found period pics of the balkan cross flag being in service).

Montreal just won against Tampa in game 5 and that is more important at the moment.

Vilja

[90th Light]

$500.00 piece.......always have been always will be ( imho)
Cheers Steve

Hello Steve,

according to the members posting on this thread, all type 2 SS smocks will be selling for $500 in the future

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=795560

It is like "lipstick on a pig", a high price does not make an item real just as a low price does not make it fake. No one has tried to make a "silk purse out of a sow's ear" with these. In reality, they have never sold for big money. However, the more that is found out about them the less ground those who say fake have to stand on.

I am sorry, "it is fake because someone said it must be fake. Because someone said it was fake so it must be fake because it has always been fake. This is because it is fake because I said fake"......... just does not cut it.

A low price does not make fake and variation from the norm does not make fake.

Lets have some tangible facts. A USSR museum property stamp from the period 1947-49 is a tangible fact, which so far has not been explained away by those who say otherwise,

Chris

[SJP]

Chris, ........I"ll pass on the "Kool aid"
__________________________________________
Cheers Steve

[90th Light]

Chris,
I have no problem with what you are saying and I do not offend easily....if at all.

I am simply stating a fact about logic and how one comes to a conclusion.
I used the clg pouches as an example as I did with the vehicle ID flag.
The mint unissued clg MP38/40 pouches are considered original, yet the pink smocks are not?
Both were basically discovered by the same means…do a search on these mint pouches (and smocks) and you will see where I am coming from.

I will buy a balken cross vehicle ID flag.
I will never buy a mint clg marked pouch.
I would not buy another "pink smock" knowing that I will not be able to re-sell as an original so there is no point in a pink smock purchase for investment purposes.
I did have a stronger sense that the ID flag was original at the time and I do remember a period picture somewhere in my reference material.
(I am not sure if someone found period pics of the balkan cross flag being in service).

Montreal just won against Tampa in game 5 and that is more important at the moment.

Vilja

Hello again Vilja,

you make a good points but I am left wondering what are the best examples we have here on WAF of items that were considered bad for a long time and then turned out to be the real deal made before May 1945.

Of course, what one person calls pleasure in life another calls poison. Wonder how the "Tampa" feel about game 5 right now ?

Chris

[90th Light]

Chris, ........I"ll pass on the "Kool aid"
__________________________________________
Cheers Steve

No worries Steve,

best thing to do when you run out of facts or do not have the answer,

Chris

[SJP]

No worries Steve,

best thing to do when you run out of facts or do not have the answer,

Chris

Not really Chris,when they sell for 5K I"ll be a "believer"
__________________________________________________ ____________
Cheers Steve